Holi in bhang

[PsicoMagico]

Že dalj časa razmišljam, da je na zahodu dokaj "prikrito" (vsaj v splošnem zavedanju) dejstvo, da je močan del hindujske duhovnosti prežet z uporabo tradicionalnih pripravkov iz konoplje, še posebej bhanga, ki je pomemben pripravek, ki ga precej konzumirajo ob svetem prazniku Holiju.

 

http://www.holifestival.org/tradition-of-bhang.html

 

Iz prve roke vem, da ga pijejo tudi visoko usposobljeni mojstri - Panditi iz glasbenega področja, pa tudi prenekateri guru. Legenda pravi da je blagodejne lastnosti odkril sam Shiva, ki ga imenujejo tudi "Lord of Bhang", dokumentirano pa je uporaba cannabis sative v "duhovne" namene Indijcem znana že vsaj od 1000 pr.n.št.

 

http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-03-19/drinks-corner/28691224_1_bhang-holi-colours

 

Glede na znane učinke zaužitja te substance, se opisi metafizičnih stanj v hindujski religiji in metafiziki zdijo zelo močno inspirirani z uporabo te substance. In s to izjavo ne mislim nič slabega o Hinduizmu - zgolj prepisujem znano dejstvo - prav tako pa nimam predsodkov do uporabe česarkoli, kar ponuja narava v tak ali drugačen namen.

 

Ali to kaj zmanjša njihovo uporabno (psihološko) vrednost ne vem in ne bi sodil na podlagi predsodkov, ki jih prinaša vsesplošna prohibicija te rastline v večini sveta, vsekakor pa je zanimivo da je morda ključ do razgrinjanja določenih "idej" prav v neposredni zmedi receptorjev, ki jo povzroči ta substanca.

 

Kaj menite - koliko je pisan svet hinduizma nastal na podlagi "THC"?

 

Dejstva so, da je zanje ta substanca izjemno sveta, splošno jo uporabljajo v povezavi s svetimi rituali in prazniki, njeno uporabo pa poznajo in slavijo že več tisoč let in je omenjena tudi v vedski literaturi...

 

Ta dejstva niso zanemarljiva.

[capt. spaulding]

Moja izkušnja z THC je pribl. da se redna uporaba rezultira predvsem v tem, da drastično upade storilnost, ki je pa na zahodu nujno potrebna če češ bit na zahodu sloboden, DA MAŠ CAJT PA KEŠ!

Pojma pa nimam kako se sadaka pod vplivom THC dogaja v sami sadani, sem prej prenehal z konzumacijo.

A si siguren, da je nekje v Vedah zapisano, da je sadana pod vplivim THC koristna?

To, da se ga pa poha na veliko v Indiji je pa dejstvo, predvsem na kakih večjih eventih ala KhumbaMella.

Osebno mislim da je Uporaba THC ja v sadani vprašljiva, še en mamac da ti otegne pozornost...

[Dreammer]

Že dalj časa razmišljam, da je na zahodu dokaj "prikrito" (vsaj v splošnem zavedanju) dejstvo, da je močan del hindujske duhovnosti prežet z uporabo tradicionalnih pripravkov iz konoplje, še posebej bhanga, ki je pomemben pripravek, ki ga precej konzumirajo ob svetem prazniku Holiju.

 

http://www.holifesti...n-of-bhang.html

 

Iz prve roke vem, da ga pijejo tudi visoko usposobljeni mojstri - Panditi iz glasbenega področja, pa tudi prenekateri guru. Legenda pravi da je blagodejne lastnosti odkril sam Shiva, ki ga imenujejo tudi "Lord of Bhang", dokumentirano pa je uporaba cannabis sative v "duhovne" namene Indijcem znana že vsaj od 1000 pr.n.št.

 

http://articles.time...ng-holi-colours

 

Glede na znane učinke zaužitja te substance, se opisi metafizičnih stanj v hindujski religiji in metafiziki zdijo zelo močno inspirirani z uporabo te substance. In s to izjavo ne mislim nič slabega o Hinduizmu - zgolj prepisujem znano dejstvo - prav tako pa nimam predsodkov do uporabe česarkoli, kar ponuja narava v tak ali drugačen namen.

 

Ali to kaj zmanjša njihovo uporabno (psihološko) vrednost ne vem in ne bi sodil na podlagi predsodkov, ki jih prinaša vsesplošna prohibicija te rastline v večini sveta, vsekakor pa je zanimivo da je morda ključ do razgrinjanja določenih "idej" prav v neposredni zmedi receptorjev, ki jo povzroči ta substanca.

 

Kaj menite - koliko je pisan svet hinduizma nastal na podlagi "THC"?

 

Dejstva so, da je zanje ta substanca izjemno sveta, splošno jo uporabljajo v povezavi s svetimi rituali in prazniki, njeno uporabo pa poznajo in slavijo že več tisoč let in je omenjena tudi v vedski literaturi...

 

Ta dejstva niso zanemarljiva.

 

zanemarljivo ni dejstvo ,da si očiten bedak, ki nima pojma o osnovah hinduizma!

 

od kdaj pa svete vaishnave kadijo travo?? kot da je ves hinduizem samo sihvaizem po tvoji presoji.

 

zato nisi le neosveščen bedak, temveč tudi manipulator!

 

bo treba malo leksikone o osnovah velikih religij prebat! haha

[PsicoMagico]

Moja izkušnja z THC je pribl. da se redna uporaba rezultira predvsem v tem, da drastično upade storilnost, ki je pa na zahodu nujno potrebna če češ bit na zahodu sloboden, DA MAŠ CAJT PA KEŠ!

Pojma pa nimam kako se sadaka pod vplivom THC dogaja v sami sadani, sem prej prenehal z konzumacijo.

A si siguren, da je nekje v Vedah zapisano, da je sadana pod vplivim THC koristna?

To, da se ga pa poha na veliko v Indiji je pa dejstvo, predvsem na kakih večjih eventih ala KhumbaMella.

Osebno mislim da je Uporaba THC ja v sadani vprašljiva, še en mamac da ti otegne pozornost...

 

Ma ne vem, kako je z uporabo pri samih "duhovnih" tehnikah, prej se mi zdi da je sam izvor teh idej in tehnik morda v tem. Tudi nisem tega objavil kot neko reklamo za uporabo cannabis, sam nimam nekih silnih izkušenj, sem odraščal v takem "zavarovanem" okolju, da nisem nikdar prišel v stik v to, šele po najstniških letih so se v mojem krogu prijateljev in znancev pojavili modeli, ki ga občasno pohajo, pa v Indiji sem tudi srečal veliko ljudi, ki so redno kadili, pa videl uporabo bhanga v Rajasthanu.

 

Da se ga poha, to vem, kot pravim, sem videl na lastne oči, pa raje ne probal - še to bi se manjkalo - pohat njihovo močno ganjo sredi tistega kaosa od države - bi bilo malo preveč za krhko dušico, hehehe, a to je enako kot po vsem svetu - no, mogoče ga pohajo še malo več kot drugod, ampak sam bhang in ta oralna konzumacija v "svete" namene pa je nekaj drugega.

 

Mislim, da nikjer ne piše dobesedno o "sadani pod vplivom THC". Cannabis (kot "bhanga") je omenjena v Atharva vedi kot zdravilna in magična rastlina. Shiva je znan kot uporabnik te rastline in Sufiji in drugi mistiki so to baje na veliko prakticirali. Tako da sklepam, da je veliko "mističnih" idej nastalo tudi tako...

 

Vsekakor izgleda da ima vsa ta metafizika nek izvor tudi v uporabi "svetih" rastlin - znanje ni prišlo kar tako od nikoder... http://www.vedanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2:the-flow-of-soma&catid=33:the-vedas-and-their-interpretation&Itemid=2

 

Sicer "soma" zelo verjetno ni cannabis, morda sploh ni rastlina, je zgolj močan simbol - a lahko da je ravno obratno - neka konkretna rastlina s svojo močno substanco, ki je sprožila vizije na podlagi katerih so potem zgradili vso to simboliko - podobne štorije lahko opazujemo v drugih kulturah - recimo Amazonska ayahuasca - ki ni več razumljena samo kot rastlina oz. opojni napitek iz dveh rastlin, temveč neke vrste božanstvo, rastlinska inteligenca okoli katere se je zgradila cela "kozmologija".

 

Temo sem sicer odprl o bolj "banalni" zadevi - o tradicionalni in še zmeraj aktualni uporabi bhanga, ki lahko daje take pisane vizije in sproža določene ideacije, ki jih nato beremo in slišimo od raznih modrecev.

 

Nek tekst, ki sem ga našel - mogoče bo kdo kaj dalje raziskoval, dodal:

 

 

To the Hindu the Hemp Plant Is Holy" The earliest allusion to bhang's mind-altering influence is contained in the fourth book of the Vedas, the Atharvaveda ("Science of Charms"). Written some time between 2000 and 1400 B.C., the Atharvaveda (12:6.15) calls bhang one of the "five kingdoms of herbs... which release us from anxiety." But it is not until much later in India's history that bhang became a part of everyday life. By the tenth century A.D., for example, it was just beginning to be extolled as a indracanna, the "food of the gods". A fifteenth-century document refers to it as "light-hearted", "joyful", and "rejoices", and claims that among its virtues are "astringency", "heat", "speech-giving", "inspiration of mental powers", "excitability", and the capacity to "remove wind and phlegm".[38]

 

By the sixteenth century A.D., it found its way into India's popular literature. The Dhurtasamagama, or "Rogue's Congress", a light farce written to amuse audiences, has two beggars come before an unscrupulous judge asking for a decision on a quarrel concerning a maiden at the bazaar. Before he will render his decision, however, the judge demands payment for his arbitration, In response to this demand, one of the beggars offers some bhang. The judge readily accepts and, tasting it, declares that "it produces a healthy appetite, sharpens the wits, and acts as an aphrodisiac".[39]

 

In the Rajvallabha, a seventeenth-century text dealing with drugs used in India, bhang is described as follows:

 

India's food is acid, produces infatuation, and destroys leprosy. It creates vital energy, increases mental powers and internal heat, corrects irregularities of the phlegmatic humor, and is an

elixir vitae

. It was originally produced like nectar from the ocean by churning it with Mount Mandara. Inasmuch as it is believed to give victory in the three worlds and to bring delight to the king of the gods (Siva), it was called

vijaya

(victorious). This desire-filling drug was believed to have been obtained by men on earth for the welfare of all people. To those who use it regularly, it begets joy and diminishes anxiety.[40]

 

Yet it was not as a medicinal aid or as a social lubricant that bhang was preeminent among the people of India. Rather, it was and still is because of its association with the religious life of the country that bhang is so extolled and glorified. The stupefaction produced by the plant's resin is greatly valued by the fakirs and ascetics, the holy men of India, because they believe that communication with their deities is greatly facilitated during intoxication with bhang. (According to one legend, the Buddha subsisted on a daily ration of one cannabis seed, and nothing else, during his six years of asceticism.[41]) Taken in early morning, the drug is believed to cleanse the body of sin. Like the communion of Christianity, the devotee who partakes of bhang partakes of the god Siva.

 

Cannabis also held a preeminent place in the Tantric religion which evolved in Tibet in the seventh century A.D. out of an amalgam of Buddhism and local religion.[42] The priests of this religion were wizards known as lamas ("superiors"). The high priest was called the Dalai Lama ("mighty superior").

 

Tantrism, a word that means "that which is woven together", was a religion based on fear of demons. To combat the demonic threat to the world, the people sought protection in the spells, incantations, formulas (mantras), and exorcisms of their lamas, and in plants such as cannabis which were set afire to overcome evil forces.

 

Cannabis was also an important part of the Tantric religious yoga sex acts consecrated to the goddess Kali. During the ritual, about an hour and a half prior to intercourse the devotee placed a bowl of bhang before him and uttered the mantra: "Om hrim, O ambrosia-formed goddess [Kali] who has arisen from ambrosia, who showers ambrosia, bring me ambrosia again and again, bestow occult power [siddhi] and bring my chosen deity to my power."[43] Then, after uttering several other mantras, he drank the potion. The delay between drinking the bhang and the sex act was to allow the drug time to act so that it would heighten the senses and thereby increase the feeling of oneness with the goddess.[44]

 

At the turn of the twentieth century, the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission, which had been summoned in the 1890s to investigate the use of cannabis in India, concluded that the plant was so much an integral part of the culture and religion of that country that to curtail its usage would certainly lead to unhappiness, resentment, and suffering. Their conclusions:

 

To the Hindu the hemp plant is holy. A guardian lives in the bhang leaf... To see in a dream the leaves, plant, or water of bhang is lucky... No good thing can come to the man who treads underfoot the holy bhang leaf. A longing for bhang foretells happiness.

 

...Besides as a cure for fever, bhang has many medicinal virtues... It cures dysentry and sunstroke, clears phlegm, quickens digestion, sharpens appetite, makes the tongue of the lisper plain, freshens the intellect, and gives alertness to the body and gaiety to the mind. Such are the useful and needful ends for which in his goodness the Almighty made bhang... It is inevitable that temperaments should be found to whom the quickening spirit of bhang is the spirit of freedom and knowledge. In the ecstasy of bhang the spark of the Eternal in man turns into light the murkiness of matter... Bhang is the Joygiver, the Skyflier, the Heavenly-guide, the Poor Man's Heaven, the Soother of Grief... No god or man is as good as the religious drinker of bhang... The supporting power of bhang has brought many has brought many a Hindu family safe through the miseries of famine. To forbid or even seriously to restrict the use of so holy and gracious an herb as the hemp would cause widespread suffering and annoyance and to large bands of worshipped ascetics, deep-seated anger. It would rob the people of a solace in discomfort, of a cure in sickness, of a guardian whose gracious protection saves them from the attacks of evil influences... So grand a result, so tiny a sin![45]

 

[PsicoMagico]

zanemarljivo ni dejstvo ,da si očiten bedak, ki nima pojma o osnovah hinduizma!

 

od kdaj pa svete vaishnave kadijo travo?? kot da je ves hinduizem samo sihvaizem po tvoji presoji.

 

zato nisi le neosveščen bedak, temveč tudi manipulator!

 

bo treba malo leksikone o osnovah velikih religij prebat! haha

 

Povsem možno.

 

Sem pa napisal "del" in nisem trdil da je samo tako - odprl sem temo, ki je lahko debata in ni treba takoj bruhnit in pljunit. Lahko se objavijo razna dejstva in nadaljne razlage.

 

Že naslov teme je malo zamejil "definicijo" - Holi in Bhang... kje je tu Shivaizem? Kolikor vem Holi slavijo vsi... pa bhang tudi ne pijejo samo Shivaisti...

[tantra]

"... While you visit the akharas of Naga Sadhus,

one can have a glance of these sadhus smoking chilum (Marijuana).

The consumption of bhang is also considered to be a part of the rituals

performed by Naga Sadhus. The sadhus hold the view that doing so will lead

them to eternity or nirvana. ..."

http://www.thekumbhmela.com/about_akharas.html

[PsicoMagico]

Pa ko so že bile omenjene Vaishnave:

 

vir: http://www.newworlde...Sadhu_and_Swami

 

"...though many Vaishnava sadhus smoke it, cannabis is closely associated with Shiva and is said to be his "prasad," a form of his grace, and to allow the participation in his being. Smoking cannabis is also said to further the sense of "vairagya," or dispassion, and separation from the mainstream social world, its comforts and temptations—states that are central to sadhu existence. Smoking cannabis also marks the sadhus as occupying a different space than their non-ascetic peers."

 

Pa še ena omemba v povezavi z Vaishnavami:

 

"Shiva, the hermit, smokes cannabis. He is described as always being on a high. There are miniature paintings showing Parvati making bhang for her husband. She berates him for always being in a hemp trance and never doing household chores. Krishna's elder brother, Balram, is known for his fondness for bhang. Bhang drinking is a common part of rituals in Vaishnav temples. It is considered a coolant to calm the short-tempered Shiva and Balaram."

 

 

vir: http://www.mid-day.c...um-Maro-Dum.htm

 

 

@Dreammer - dalje lahko sam iščeš - ali si pač mislil katere druge "Vaishnave"?

 

Opravičilo?

[tantra]

Aushadi [vedska tradicija]

Prebujanje "spiritualne" moči z uporabo

psihotropnih zelišč, ali rastlinskih preparatov.

 

 

Zakaj je marihuana nelegalna

http://www.misteriji.net/zadnji-clanki/zakaj-je-marihuana-nelegalna/vse-strani.html

 

Konoplja - kultura prihodnosti

http://www.vsi-zdravi.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=64

 

Na Češkem je med drugim legalno gojit do 5 rastlin indijske konoplje,

imet pri sebi 15 gramov marihuane, 5 g hašiša. ...

 

 

V Sloveniji ima težave z alkoholom, ki je trda droga, vsak 3. odrasel

moški [ubijanje na cesti - prometne nesreče, nasilje, kršenje javnega

reda in mira, ...].

 

Metadon, ki zasvoji 3x močnejše kot heroin pa se šteje kot, ha ha ha -),

zdravilo, ki se ga že uživa praktično v vsaki slovenski vasi.

[capt. spaulding]

zanemarljivo ni dejstvo ,da si očiten bedak, ki nima pojma o osnovah hinduizma!

 

od kdaj pa svete vaishnave kadijo travo?? kot da je ves hinduizem samo sihvaizem po tvoji presoji.

 

zato nisi le neosveščen bedak, temveč tudi manipulator!

 

bo treba malo leksikone o osnovah velikih religij prebat! haha

 

Hare Krihna, Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna................

 

Dej mal ohlad z žalitvami, človek pač ne loči razlike v tilakih, sigurno pa ni namerno provociral v tvojo smer...

Ahimsa brate.

[tantra]

Satyananda Saraswati - Aushadhi:

"... Awakening through herbs

The fourth method of awakening is through the use of specific herbs.

In Sanskrit this is called aushadhi, and it should not be interpreted

as meaning drugs like marijuana, LSD, etc.

 

 

Aushadhi is the most powerful and rapid method of awakening

but it is not for all and very few people know about it.

 

There are herbs which can transform the nature of the body and its

elements and bring about either partial or full awakening, but they

should never be used without a guru or qualified guide.

 

This is because certain herbs selectively awaken ida or pingala

and others can suppress both these nadis and quickly lead one to

the mental asylum. For this reason, aushadhi is a very risky and

unreliable method.

 

 

 

In the ancient vedic texts of India,

there are references to a substance called soma.

 

Soma was a juice extracted from a creeper which was picked

on special days of the dark lunar fortnight. It was placed

in an earthen pitcher and buried underground until the full

moon. Then it was removed and the juice was extracted and taken.

This induced visions, experiences and an awakening of higher

consciousness.

 

 

The Persians knew another drink, homa,

which may have been the same as soma.

 

In Brazil and some of the African countries, people used hallucinogenic mushrooms

and in the Himalayan regions marijuana or hashish were taken with the thought that

they might provide a shortcut in arousing spiritual awakening. From time to time,

in different parts of the world, other things were also discovered and used, some

being very mild in effect and others being very concentrated.

 

 

With the help of the correct herbs, purified aspirants were able to visualize

divine beings, holy rivers, mountains, sacred places, holy men and so on. When

the effects of the herbs were more concentrated, they could separate the self from

the body and travel astrally. Of course it was often illusory, but sometimes it was

a real experience as well.

 

 

People were able to enter a state of samadhi and awaken their kundalini.

In this particular field of awakening, the sexual instinct was completely

eliminated. Therefore, many aspirants preferred this method and have

been trying to discover the appropriate herbs for many centuries.

 

 

With aushadhi awakening the body becomes still and quiet, the metabolism slows

and the temperature drops. As a result of this, the nerve reflexes function differently

and in most cases the aushadhi awakening is a permanent one. However, the aushadhi method

of awakening is no longer practiced because it was misused by the ordinary people who were

neither prepared, competent nor qualified. As a result, knowledge of the herbs was withdrawn

and today it is a closely guarded secret.

 

 

Everyone is craving kundalini awakening, but few people have the discipline and mental,

emotional, physical and nervious preparation required to avoid damage to the brain and

tissues. So, although no one is teaching the aushadhi method of awakening today, its

knowledge has been transmitted from generation to generation through the guru/disciple

tradition. Perhaps some day, when the nature of man changes and we find better

intellectual, physical and mental responses, the science may again be revealed."

http://satyanandayoga.tara.si/kt_odlomek.php

 

 

Chilum, bhang, hashish so za nekatere Sadhuje ... "aushadi" praksa ... -)

 

Kar bi lahko bil tudi alkohol [kvaliteten whiskey, kvalitetno vino, ...

v zmerni količini - po načelu: "pij zmerno, manj je bolje & pij kvalitetno,

ohrani zbranega "Duha." Sake te kvalitete ima, možgani so prisebni, alkohol

sprosti "blokade" - budnost & prisebnost sta ohranjeni. -)

 

Kdor je pa nagnjen k alkoholizmu, bebavostim pod vplivom

alkohola in ne zna popiti zmerno kdaj pa kdaj pa naj ne pije. -)

"... While you visit the akharas of Naga Sadhus,

one can have a glance of these sadhus smoking chilum (Marijuana).

The consumption of bhang is also considered to be a part of the rituals

performed by Naga Sadhus. The sadhus hold the view that doing so will lead

them to eternity or nirvana. ..."

http://www.thekumbhmela.com/about_akharas.html

[xyz]

ma ja, saj vemo vsi, da imajo vse rastline določen vpliv na človeštvo in posledično tudi čl. kulturo.

ne vem, katera tematika naj bi bila tu obravnavana... marihuana, ali vedska kultura?

ker oboje nekako na silo tlačiti skupaj izpade nekako... izkrivljeno.

[tantra]

Naslov topica je:

"Holi in bhang. Vpliv cannabis sative na hindu metafiziko?"

 

Smoking Babas & Naga Sadhus [Kumbh Mela]

 

Sadhu Smoking Ganja, Haridwar India

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvPykI0udHk

 

Marijuana je "sveta zel" za prenekaterega sadhuja. ... -)

 

 

Marijuana in Religion

 

 

Ganja milkshake - bhang in Varanasi

Zahodnjak ga žura. -)

 

 

Dalai Lama at the Kumbh Mela

[capt. spaulding]

ma ja, saj vemo vsi, da imajo vse rastline določen vpliv na človeštvo in posledično tudi čl. kulturo.

ne vem, katera tematika naj bi bila tu obravnavana... marihuana, ali vedska kultura?

ker oboje nekako na silo tlačiti skupaj izpade nekako... izkrivljeno.

 

Se strinjam....

Si pa predstavljam zakaj je lahko taka povezava zanimiva za naše loge, vse prevečkarta so razne opojne substance povezovale z kulturnimi presežki (Prešern, Cankar..).

[xyz]

Se strinjam....

Si pa predstavljam zakaj je lahko taka povezava zanimiva za naše loge, vse prevečkarta so razne opojne substance povezovale z kulturnimi presežki (Prešern, Cankar..).

 

da. na tej točki obstajajo raznorazne razlage... od tehnične v smislu -kaj se dogaja v možganih,

do animistične, kjer je rastlina sama videna kot duh/vodič, ali karkoli že (pač odvisno od kulture).

vse te perspektive imajo stičišče v dejstvu, da znajo biti rezultati oz. posledice (uporabe) za posameznika dobesedno presenetljivi.

sam gledam na to kot na komunikacijo med človeškim in rastlinskim svetom.

[DON KARLOS]

Droge so smrt. Ko gledam velile zagovornike trave, me ne čudi zakaj je 100% dokazana v psihjatriji povezava med travo in psihozami in nervozami ... Baje samo večina mladostnikov v SLO, ki morajo obiskat norišnico kadijo so kadili travo ...

 

LP

[PsicoMagico]

ma ja, saj vemo vsi, da imajo vse rastline določen vpliv na človeštvo in posledično tudi čl. kulturo.

ne vem, katera tematika naj bi bila tu obravnavana... marihuana, ali vedska kultura?

ker oboje nekako na silo tlačiti skupaj izpade nekako... izkrivljeno.

 

 

Ja, ampak vsi podatki kažejo ravno nasprotno - da je marijuana neločljivo povezana z raznimi hindujskimi rituali, sam izvor nekaterih idej pa bi zelo lahko pripisali tudi vizijam pod vplivom te substance, da ne govorimo o neki drugi, tehnično neznani zadevi, ki ji pripisujejo še mnogo večji vpliv - somi.

 

Že če greš skozi zgoraj objavljene linke vidiš da sta zadevi zelo povezani in to ni neko natolcevanje nekega Slovenčka, ki lahko ceni kulturno uporabo alkohola, hehehe...

 

 

Že tak odsek iz enega zgornjih člankov izpod peresa Indijca iz Mumbaia je zelo zgovoren:

 

"But still, it is amazing to see Indian television soap operas directed at women showing bhang being prepared from leaves of the cannabis plant and consumed by the family during Holi. We have Bollywood songs where heroes and heroines run around trees consuming bhang and singing 'Jai Jai Shiv Shankar' and then we have the famous 'Dum Maro Dum' with a very young and beautiful Zeenat Aman surrounded by hippies smoking pot, hoping it will destroy all sorrow. No one is upset or outraged. An acknowledgment that cannabis is sacred in India ” it is sold in the temple markets of Varanasi, Puri and Nathdvara. Every sadhu smokes this potent drug.

 

Shiva, the hermit, smokes cannabis. He is described as always being on a high. There are miniature paintings showing Parvati making bhang for her husband. She berates him for always being in a hemp trance and never doing household chores. Krishna's elder brother, Balram, is known for his fondness for bhang. Bhang drinking is a common part of rituals in Vaishnav temples. It is considered a coolant to calm the short-tempered Shiva and Balaram.

 

Not just cannabis, many stimulants and depressants, including alcohol are part of sacred and social traditions all over the world. Vedic priests kept referring to soma which enabled the mind to take flight. Homer's Odyssey refers to lotus-eaters, who lie around all day doing nothing. Across Arabia and Africa, chewing narcotic leaves known as khat is a part of tradition. Ancient Egyptians called it divine food. Betel nut is an alkaloid that gives a chemical high when chewed and is famously consumed in every household in South Asia in the form of paan."

[PsicoMagico]

Droge so smrt. Ko gledam velile zagovornike trave, me ne čudi zakaj je 100% dokazana v psihjatriji povezava med travo in psihozami in nervozami ... Baje samo večina mladostnikov v SLO, ki morajo obiskat norišnico kadijo so kadili travo ...

 

LP

 

To ni tema o zlorabi drog.

 

Gre za nesporno povezavo "trave" in hindujskih ritualov.

 

Ne premakni tega v debato o "drogah" ali celo na kak "ad hominem" diskurz; zanikaj dejstva, če jih je že treba oz. če jih lahko.

 

Seveda ni uporaba te "droge" VSE kar je pri hinduizmu, je pa nesporno (dokazi so jasni in nedvoumni) kar pomemben del - in ne dvomim, da so veliko idej in vizij dobili prav skozi to.

[PsicoMagico]

Pa še (skoraj) vse na enem mestu - uradno (komentarji raznih uradnikov) in podkrepljeno z viri:

 

 

http://druglibrary.net/schaffer/Library/studies/inhemp/6app1.htm

 

 

Še malo o Vaishnavah, ki jih je nekdo omenil in se skušal posmehovati... nespametno...

 

"Vaishnavas as well as Shaivas make offerings of bhang. The form of Vishnu or the Guardian to whom bhang is a welcome offering is Baladev, Balaram, or Dauji, the elder brother of Krishna. Baladev was fond of spirits, not of bhang. But Banias, Bhatias, and other high class Hindus, not being able to offer spirits, instead of spirits present bhang. In Bombay the offering of bhang to Baladev, unlike the special offerings to Shiva, is a common and every-day rite. Without an offering of bhang no worship of Baladev is complete. Unlike the plain or milk and sugared bhang spilt over the Ling, Baladev's bhang is a richly-spiced liquid which all present, including the offerer, join in drinking. Such social and religious drinking of bhang is common in Bombay in the temple of dauji in Kalyan Kirparam lane near Bhuleshwar. As in the higher class worship of Baladev the liquor offering has been refined into an offering of bhang so it is in the worship of Devi, Shiva's early and terrible consort. On any Tuesday or Friday, the two weeks days sacred to Devi, still more during the Navratra or Nine Nights in Ashwin or September-October, those whose caste rules forbid liquor make a pleasing spiced bhang. And as in the worship of Baladev all present, worshipper and ministrant alike, join in drinking. Shitaladevi, the Cooler, the dread goddess of small-pox, whose nature, like the nature of bhang, is cooling, takes pleasure in offerings of bhang. During epidemics of small-pox the burning and fever of the disease are soothed by pouring bhang over the image of Shitaladevi. So for the feverishness caused by the heats especially to the old no cure equals the drinking of bhang. Unlike spirits the tempter to flesh bhang the craver for milk is pleasing to the Hindu religion. Even according to the straitest school of the objectors to stimulants, while to a high caste Hindu the penalty for liquor-drinking is death, no penalty attached to the use of bhang, and a single day's fast is enough to cleanse from the coarser spirit of ganja. Even among those who hold stimulants to be devil-possessed penalty and disfavour attach to the use of hemp drugs only when they are taken with no religious object and without observing the due religious rites."

[xyz]

Ja, ampak vsi podatki kažejo ravno nasprotno - da je marijuana neločljivo povezana z raznimi hindujskimi rituali, sam izvor nekaterih idej pa bi zelo lahko pripisali tudi vizijam pod vplivom te substance, da ne govorimo o neki drugi, tehnično neznani zadevi, ki ji pripisujejo še mnogo večji vpliv - somi.

 

Že če greš skozi zgoraj objavljene linke vidiš da sta zadevi zelo povezani in to ni neko natolcevanje nekega Slovenčka, ki lahko ceni kulturno uporabo alkohola, hehehe...

 

seveda je tu povezanost, kako tudi ne. prav tako najdeš tudi v evropi raznorazne povezanosti med rastlinami in človeško zavestjo.

a kultura sama je mnogo bolj obširno polje, v katerem so vplivi raznoraznih rastlin malenkostni.

raznorazne vizije pa so lahko sprožene skozi različne okoliščine... marihuana npr. je tu le en od neštetih faktorjev.

sadhana, kot že omenjeno, je tu dosti bolj vplivna... najsi bo ta spremljana z ali brez vpliva psihogenih substanc.

nedvomno obstaja možnost ritualne uporabe rastlin, kot že šamanske prakse dokazujejo.

[capt. spaulding]

seveda je tu povezanost, kako tudi ne. prav tako najdeš tudi v evropi raznorazne povezanosti med rastlinami in človeško zavestjo.

a kultura sama je mnogo bolj obširno polje, v katerem so vplivi raznoraznih rastlin malenkostni.

raznorazne vizije pa so lahko sprožene skozi različne okoliščine... marihuana npr. je tu le en od neštetih faktorjev.

sadhana, kot že omenjeno, je tu dosti bolj vplivna... najsi bo ta spremljana z ali brez vpliva psihogenih substanc.

nedvomno obstaja možnost ritualne uporabe rastlin, kot že šamanske prakse dokazujejo.

 

Se popolnoma strinjam!

[PsicoMagico]

seveda je tu povezanost, kako tudi ne. prav tako najdeš tudi v evropi raznorazne povezanosti med rastlinami in človeško zavestjo.

a kultura sama je mnogo bolj obširno polje, v katerem so vplivi raznoraznih rastlin malenkostni.

raznorazne vizije pa so lahko sprožene skozi različne okoliščine... marihuana npr. je tu le en od neštetih faktorjev.

sadhana, kot že omenjeno, je tu dosti bolj vplivna... najsi bo ta spremljana z ali brez vpliva psihogenih substanc.

nedvomno obstaja možnost ritualne uporabe rastlin, kot že šamanske prakse dokazujejo.

 

Se strinjam, da je kultura mnogo bolj obširno polje, a ko vidiš koliko ga razni sadhuji dejansko "pohajo", pa kako razširjeno je pitje bhanga in kako je že v sami osnovi vpeta uporaba teh substanc v doseganje teh metafizičnih stanj, se upravičeno vprašam koliko vpliva ima to... Ne zdi se tako malenkosten... Morda je bil še pred poznavanjem raznih tehnik Joge, itd. prav to VIR za vse te ideje in tehnike, a to je zgolj špekulacija.

 

Imamo pa hecen refleks - kakor hitro se povežejo kakšna takšna posebna stanja z uporabo "drog", jim zmanjšamo pomen, se nam zdijo manj vredna, kot pa če se ta ista stanja dosežejo preko dihalnih in drugih meditacijskih tehnik. Kot da se bojimo, da so "zgolj" halucinacije... na meditativen način doseženi uvidi, pa da so nekaj več. Kar se mene tiče je efekt obojega "halucinacija", ki pa ni "samo" halucinacija, temveč ima neko vsebino, ki jo je vredno opazovati.

 

No kakorkoli, vidim, da je lahko ta tema pereča, bi mi bilo veliko bolj všeč, če bi debaterji več operirali z dejstvi - recimo kdo, kje, koliko, kaj, zakaj in se ne bi prepuščali zgolj vrednostnim sodbam.

 

Včasih kakšno reč mistificiramo, pa je izvor povsem banalen ali "preprost" - a bi bili "mistični" in religiozni sistemi kaj manj vredni, če se izkaže, da so "ustanovitelji" teh sistemov do tega prišli preko uživanja kakšnih takšnih substanc, kar se je deloma ohranilo tudi v sodobni praksi? Se morda verniki bojijo, da je vse skupaj "zgolj" halucinacija? Mene to ne moti, ker lahko izpustim besedico "zgolj" in jemljem fenomenon kot fenomen in ne kot nekaj pejorativnega.

 

Zanimiva in provokativna hipoteza s strani uglednega Izraelskega znanstvenika se je pojavila tudi o izvoru Mojzesovih idej: http://shamanism.fil...ticle_moses.pdf

 

Seveda je zoglj hipoteza, ki pa se zid precej verjetna - so jo pa že takoj narobe in senzacionalistično objavljali po medijih in seveda so Židje, Kristjani in Muslimani takoj skožili v zrak, da to pa že ne gre...

 

Pa poučen odgovor znanstvenika v Guardianu - ki je prav tako senzacionalistično in poenostavljeno poročal o njegovem članku: http://www.guardian....mar/26/religion

 

Te reči so seveda občutljive, še posebej, ker je toliko predsodkov o teh rečeh.

 

Preden bi kdo kaj površno komentiral, naj si prebere te članke. Tu ni nič naivnega, poenostavljenega, itd. - je zgolj razmišljanje o zelo možnih opcijah.

[tantra]

Mimogrede, Barack Obama je kadil marihuano, užival kokain ...

"Obama admits that he used marijuana and cocaine as a teenager.

It is thus ironic that if he were a foreign national,

he would be denied admission to the United States based on his past drug use."

http://www.nndb.com/people/208/000055043/

 

 

Steve Jobs [Apple Computers] je imel raje LSD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

 

Steve Jobs once said his experience taking LSD was:

"one of the two or three most important things I have done in my life."

 

"... Steve Jobs traveled to India with a Reed College friend (and, later, the first Apple employee),

Daniel Kottke, in search of spiritual enlightenment. He came back a Buddhist with his head shaved

and wearing traditional Indian clothing. During this time, Jobs experimented with psychedelics,

calling his LSD experiences *one of the two or three most important things [he had] done in [his]

life*. He has stated that people around him who did not share his countercultural roots could not

fully relate to his thinking. ..."

 

 

LSD Inventor Hofmann's Letter To Steve Jobs

http://open.salon.com/blog/hal_m/2009/07/09/lsd_inventor_hofmanns_letter_to_steve_jobs

 

 

Psihotropne substance, kot zgleda, imajo določen vpliv na kreatorje trendov tudi v

Zahodni kulturi. Tako zgleda. Zgoraj naveden primer je zgolj eden od od številnih ...

 

!So pa vsekakor problemi, ko psihotropne substance zasvojijo uživalce. ...

 

 

Pa naj bo to alkohol [trda droga], psiho tropna zlorabljena zdravila, ...

 

 

Tradicionalna marihuana NE zasvoji NE fizično, NE psihično [nekaj procentni THC].

 

Vzgojene sorte s ..., 15 - 20% THC-ja pa že znajo zasvojit psihično. ...

Po psihodeličnemu učinku zna biti kakšen hud "skunk" že blizu LSD-ja. ...

 

 

Vsekakor je razlika med "domačico" vs. novimi vedno bolj psihodeličnimi

sortami z vedno višjo stopnjo THC-ja. ...

 

Indijci teh "težav" nimajo, konzumirajo svoje v veliki meri še

nemodificirane rastline ... Ki so verjeten še, kolikor toliko genuine - avtotohne. ...

 

Mimogrede, z marihuano se je "pomirjal" tudi plavalni superzvezdnik

Michael Phelps.

http://web.vecer.com/portali/vecer/v1/default.asp?kaj=3&id=2009020205402635

 

 

John Lennon je po enem od številnih drogiranj prišel do spoznanja,

da je najbolj zadet, ko je totalno clean - brez psihotropnih substanc

v sebi. ...

 

Tu se z Lennonom popolnoma strinjam. ... Počutje je "endomorfinsko" stanje.

Ki se ga z vnosom psihotropnih substanc sesuva - sesuje, telo rabi kar

nekaj časa, da vzpostavi stanje naravnega dobrega počutja, ki je bilo

pred začetkom jemanja psihotropnih substanc - če sploh kdaj. ...

[tantra]

http://newshopper.sulekha.com/india-daily-life_photo_966791.htm

[xyz]

Se strinjam, da je kultura mnogo bolj obširno polje, a ko vidiš koliko ga razni sadhuji dejansko "pohajo", pa kako razširjeno je pitje bhanga in kako je že v sami osnovi vpeta uporaba teh substanc v doseganje teh metafizičnih stanj, se upravičeno vprašam koliko vpliva ima to... Ne zdi se tako malenkosten... Morda je bil še pred poznavanjem raznih tehnik Joge, itd. prav to VIR za vse te ideje in tehnike, a to je zgolj špekulacija.

 

Imamo pa hecen refleks - kakor hitro se povežejo kakšna takšna posebna stanja z uporabo "drog", jim zmanjšamo pomen, se nam zdijo manj vredna, kot pa če se ta ista stanja dosežejo preko dihalnih in drugih meditacijskih tehnik. Kot da se bojimo, da so "zgolj" halucinacije... na meditativen način doseženi uvidi, pa da so nekaj več. Kar se mene tiče je efekt obojega "halucinacija", ki pa ni "samo" halucinacija, temveč ima neko vsebino, ki jo je vredno opazovati.

 

No kakorkoli, vidim, da je lahko ta tema pereča, bi mi bilo veliko bolj všeč, če bi debaterji več operirali z dejstvi - recimo kdo, kje, koliko, kaj, zakaj in se ne bi prepuščali zgolj vrednostnim sodbam.

 

Včasih kakšno reč mistificiramo, pa je izvor povsem banalen ali "preprost" - a bi bili "mistični" in religiozni sistemi kaj manj vredni, če se izkaže, da so "ustanovitelji" teh sistemov do tega prišli preko uživanja kakšnih takšnih substanc, kar se je deloma ohranilo tudi v sodobni praksi? Se morda verniki bojijo, da je vse skupaj "zgolj" halucinacija? Mene to ne moti, ker lahko izpustim besedico "zgolj" in jemljem fenomenon kot fenomen in ne kot nekaj pejorativnega.

 

Zanimiva in provokativna hipoteza s strani uglednega Izraelskega znanstvenika se je pojavila tudi o izvoru Mojzesovih idej: http://shamanism.fil...ticle_moses.pdf

 

Seveda je zoglj hipoteza, ki pa se zid precej verjetna - so jo pa že takoj narobe in senzacionalistično objavljali po medijih in seveda so Židje, Kristjani in Muslimani takoj skožili v zrak, da to pa že ne gre...

 

Pa poučen odgovor znanstvenika v Guardianu - ki je prav tako senzacionalistično in poenostavljeno poročal o njegovem članku: http://www.guardian....mar/26/religion

 

Te reči so seveda občutljive, še posebej, ker je toliko predsodkov o teh rečeh.

 

Preden bi kdo kaj površno komentiral, naj si prebere te članke. Tu ni nič naivnega, poenostavljenega, itd. - je zgolj razmišljanje o zelo možnih opcijah.

 

ne vem, zakaj bi bilo relevantno, ali gre za iluzijo ali ne. naš lastni odnos do sveta je naše lastno življenje.

če se jeziš v sanjah, se jeziš, in to ima direkten vpliv na tvoje psihofizično stanje.