Vse možno

[*glas*]

...pol različne ideje različnih jaz-ev že obstajajo v oceanu in so kot take večne (ker niso skreirane) in so večno različne med seboj. Se prav kako lahko potem rečeš, da je ocean le ena nerazlična, neločena, homogena substanca, brez kakršnekoli raznolikosti, brez kakršnekoli oblike ločenosti?

 

V točki izkušanja oceana ideje pridejo in gredo, podobno kot tebi pridejo misli in gredo.. Ali rečeno malo drugače, sredi večnega trenutka tukaj in zdaj se lahko porodi neka ideja in nato tudi odide.. in to kar pride nima časovnega poteka, ker je le večnoprisotni "tukaj in sedaj".. In tukaj je tudi ta ideja različnih jazev, le ideja.. in tam to ne pomeni, da je kakorkoli pomembna, da se realizira ali ne.. in nima nobene večje pomembnosti, od katerakoli druge ideje, ki je pa recimo kontra tej ideji..

 

Vseeno pa pojavna realnost nato funkcionira na način, da te "misli oceana v svojem viru", vse sočasno nastanejo(se dogajajo) in na nižjih ravneh kot da tečejo po linearni skali dogodkov, kjer imajo nakaj izza sebe in nekaj še pred sabo, in se po tej linearni poti razvijajo in vedno nastajajo v nekaj druga.. itd

In to velja tudi za realnosti, ki se med sabo ne podpirajo in zato med sabo tudi nimajo stika..

In recimo ko mi rečeš to je intradiktorno, to pomeni da neki ravni obstoja, ti dve ideji res mogoče ne moreta sočasno obstajati, ker bi se potem med sabo izničili.. zato je tam, na tej ravni, med njima potegnjen zid in tudi omejitve delovanja.. Ko stojiš v stanju, kjer vse te intradiktorne realnosti vidiš, kako obstajajo vsako zase in sočasno, takrat stojiš v stanju brezmejnosti in stanju dojemanja celotne realnosti sočasno.. (seveda tudi ta širina se odpira po fazah.. in vsaki fazi se dojame kot da je to zadnje znanje pa ultimativno.. saj tudi je, ampak vedno pride še novo - vsaj v poljih kjer si del pojavnega..)"

 

 

Se pravi ti si ustavil staranje (spreminjanje) in odpravil si smrt tvoje forme, tvojega jaza?

 

Saj tvoja forma ni tvoj "jaz"..

 

Saj ta forma, po kateri sprašuješ vsekakor ima neko zgodbo še naprej..

Kako ta spoznanja in živetje iz njih vpliva na to formo, se bo kazalo sproti (kot se tudi kaže že ves čas).. Mogoče je kaj povezano tudi z okolico..

Ali se v pojavni formi zgodi zgodba, kjer izstopim iz fizikalnih pravil obstoja.. to vsekakor, da se..

zdaj pa ali se to zgodi tako, da za realnost preneham obstajati, ali pa obstajam še naprej, brez da korkoli opazi karkoli posebnega.

kakorkoli že..

Vsekakor gre v temu procesu, za postopno izkustveno dojemanje-prepoznavanje tega, da je ta ideja fizičnega obstoja le neka ideja.. In mi (kot del te forme) tukaj sedaj živimo to eno idejo tako od blizu, kot da je za nas trenutno edina možna in zato jo tudi kreiramo kot edino, ki je..

Izkušnja te naše kreacije pa se čuti kot da smo se znašli sredi materialnega okolja, kjer pač živimo, se trudimo preživeti itd..

 

A vbistvu gre sredi tega polja le za dojetje, da je to le ideja.. ki se jo lahko greš ali pa tudi ne, če ti ni, in se greš kaj druga..

znotraj nje ali tudi izven nje..

ker ti je oboje skoraj enako

[mgd]

V točki izkušanja oceana ideje pridejo in gredo, podobno kot tebi pridejo misli in gredo.. Ali rečeno malo drugače, sredi večnega trenutka tukaj in zdaj se lahko porodi neka ideja in nato tudi odide.. in to kar pride nima časovnega poteka, ker je le večnoprisotni "tukaj in sedaj".. In tukaj je tudi ta ideja različnih jazev, le ideja.. in tam to ne pomeni, da je kakorkoli pomembna, da se realizira ali ne.. in nima nobene večje pomembnosti, od katerakoli druge ideje, ki je pa recimo kontra tej ideji..

 

Ideje (v množini) pomeni da je več različnih idej. In da obstajajo tudi kontra ideje drugim idejam tudi pomeni da je več različnih idej. Če je več različnih idej v oceanu, zakaj pol pišeš, da v oceanu ni nobene oblike ločenosti? Sej ena ideja mora biti ločena od druge ideje z nečem, da je lahko različna a ne.

 

 

Saj tvoja forma ni tvoj "jaz"..

 

Napisal si da mora "jaz" umreti, da bi lahko dobil izkušnjo enega oceana. "Jaz" je bil tukaj iz tvoje strani napisan kot forma kapljice iz oceana. Zato sem vprašal tako kot sem. In mislil sem na formo.

 

Saj ta forma, po kateri sprašuješ vsekakor ima neko zgodbo še naprej..

Kako ta spoznanja in živetje iz njih vpliva na to formo, se bo kazalo sproti (kot se tudi kaže že ves čas).. Mogoče je kaj povezano tudi z okolico..

Ali se v pojavni formi zgodi zgodba, kjer izstopim iz fizikalnih pravil obstoja.. to vsekakor, da se..

zdaj pa ali se to zgodi tako, da za realnost preneham obstajati, ali pa obstajam še naprej, brez da korkoli opazi karkoli posebnega.

kakorkoli že..

Vsekakor gre v temu procesu, za postopno izkustveno dojemanje-prepoznavanje tega, da je ta ideja fizičnega obstoja le neka ideja.. In mi (kot del te forme) tukaj sedaj živimo to eno idejo tako od blizu, kot da je za nas trenutno edina možna in zato jo tudi kreiramo kot edino, ki je..

Izkušnja te naše kreacije pa se čuti kot da smo se znašli sredi materialnega okolja, kjer pač živimo, se trudimo preživeti itd..

 

A vbistvu gre sredi tega polja le za dojetje, da je to le ideja.. ki se jo lahko greš ali pa tudi ne, če ti ni, in se greš kaj druga..

znotraj nje ali tudi izven nje..

ker ti je oboje skoraj enako

 

Napisal si, da lahko kapljica ohranja svojo formo neskončno dolgo. Vprašal sem te, če ti to opisuješ iz lastne izkušnje ali verjameš tako in si odgovoril da iz izkušnje. Še enkrat sem te vprašal, če to potem pomeni, da si ustavil staranje in odpravil smrt forme in ti tukaj odgovarjaš, da se bo kazalo sproti in pol še par ugibanj. Še enkrat te vprašam, ohranjanje forme neskončno dolgo pomen točno to, da si ustavil staranje in odpravil smrt. Si ali nisi?

[*glas*]

Ideje (v množini) pomeni da je več različnih idej. In da obstajajo tudi kontra ideje drugim idejam tudi pomeni da je več različnih idej. Če je več različnih idej v oceanu, zakaj pol pišeš, da v oceanu ni nobene oblike ločenosti? Sej ena ideja mora biti ločena od druge ideje z nečem, da je lahko različna a ne.

 

V enosti ni ločenosti.

Ne da se drugače opisati s filozofijo..

samo vstopiš v izkušnjo in ti je jasno..

 

 

Napisal si, da lahko kapljica ohranja svojo formo neskončno dolgo. Vprašal sem te, če ti to opisuješ iz lastne izkušnje ali verjameš tako in si odgovoril da iz izkušnje. Še enkrat sem te vprašal, če to potem pomeni, da si ustavil staranje in odpravil smrt forme in ti tukaj odgovarjaš, da se bo kazalo sproti in pol še par ugibanj. Še enkrat te vprašam, ohranjanje forme neskončno dolgo pomen točno to, da si ustavil staranje in odpravil smrt. Si ali nisi?

 

Kapljica se nanaša na atmo..

[mgd]

V enosti ni ločenosti.

Ne da se drugače opisati s filozofijo..

samo vstopiš v izkušnjo in ti je jasno..

 

To ti je izgovor zdej, izmik. Napisal si da je več večnih različnih idej v oceanu in hkrati da tam ni nobene oblike ločenosti. Ko si postavljen pred nalogo, da ti dve izjavi sharmoniziraš, razložiš, se izmakneš v "izkušnjo". Point je, da ta tvoja izkušnja še ni natančno videnje in da ti iz tega izhajajo tudi še določena verjetja, upanja, nakladanja... s čimer se očitno še ne želiš soočit.

 

Kapljica se nanaša na atmo..

 

Ti besedo atma uporabljaš za nekaj drugega kot jaz oz. za kar je ta sanskrit izraz uporabljen v originalu. In, nanašal se je na fizično formo, zato si zgoraj tudi glede nje odgovarjal. Zdaj ko pa si bil postavljen še pred en test, pa preusmerjaš drugam. Že enkrat prej si na tem forumu omenjal, da si želiš fizično formo naredit večno (ampak da glede tega še nisi zihr, če se da oz. kako bi se dal) in tukaj si rekel da kapljica lahko ohranja formo neskončno dolgo in tudi da ti to govoriš na podlagi svoje izkušnje, ki pa je pol nisi mogu potrdit in zdaj preusmerjaš. V bistvu si pisal svoja verjetja, upanja..., ki so še prisotna zaradi nenatančnega videnja, ne pa izkušena dejstva.

 

Večna resnica kdo večno smo mi, v odnosu do našega Izvora in lastnika že obstaja, ne moreš je skreirat, spremenit ali uničit. Si pa lahko pred njo zatiskaš oči.

[*glas*]

To ti je izgovor zdej, izmik. Napisal si da je več večnih različnih idej v oceanu in hkrati da tam ni nobene oblike ločenosti. Ko si postavljen pred nalogo, da ti dve izjavi sharmoniziraš, razložiš, se izmakneš v "izkušnjo". Point je, da ta tvoja izkušnja še ni natančno videnje in da ti iz tega izhajajo tudi še določena verjetja, upanja, nakladanja... s čimer se očitno še ne želiš soočit.

 

Zakaj ti ego zopet ven buta?

Kar sem napisal, je nekaj samoumevnega.. Zakaj bi se naj trudil z besedami še bolj opisno opisovati, če ti te besede ne bodo mogle predati tega, kar vbistvu iščeš.. to pa je izkušnja tega.. in tam imaš instantno odgovorjene vse te odgovore.. zavedno

 

 

Ti besedo atma uporabljaš za nekaj drugega kot jaz oz. za kar je ta sanskrit izraz uporabljen v originalu. In, nanašal se je na fizično formo, zato si zgoraj tudi glede nje odgovarjal. Zdaj ko pa si bil postavljen še pred en test, pa preusmerjaš drugam. Že enkrat prej si na tem forumu omenjal, da si želiš fizično formo naredit večno (ampak da glede tega še nisi zihr, če se da oz. kako bi se dal) in tukaj si rekel da kapljica lahko ohranja formo neskončno dolgo in tudi da ti to govoriš na podlagi svoje izkušnje, ki pa je pol nisi mogu potrdit in zdaj preusmerjaš. V bistvu si pisal svoja verjetja, upanja..., ki so še prisotna zaradi nenatančnega videnja, ne pa izkušena dejstva.

 

Super, potem pa zaključiva.. Saj "taka" oseba ti pa res ne more nič več dati..

[mgd]

Zakaj ti ego zopet ven buta?

Kar sem napisal, je nekaj samoumevnega.. Zakaj bi se naj trudil z besedami še bolj opisno opisovati, če ti te besede ne bodo mogle predati tega, kar vbistvu iščeš.. to pa je izkušnja tega.. in tam imaš instantno odgovorjene vse te odgovore.. zavedno

 

Na koncu 4 letnika srednje šole, pri fiziki, nam je profesor na tablo napisal naslov "možgani so največji lažnivec". Pokazal nam je na primeru kaj je hotel s tem povedat. Bila je os na kateri je bil en kot tanek urin kazalec in severno od te osi je bila kot ena šivanka in ta urin kazalec se je dotikal desne strani te šivanke. Potem je profesor pritisnil na en gumb in videli smo kako se je ta kazalec iz desne strani šivanke preko šivanke prestavil na njeno levo stran. Oz. vsaj tako so nam možgani to interpretiral. V resnic je ta urin kazalec šel tako hitro v desno smer in prišel na drugo stran, da mi tega nismo zaznali s prostim očesom, ampak ker smo videli le spremembo lokacije iz ene na drugo stran so nam možgani interpretiral, da je šel kazalec direktno preko šivanke na drugo stran. In zdaj, jaz lahko trdim, da je šel kazalec preko šivanke na drugo stran, iz lastne "izkušnje"! Ampak to seveda ni bilo resnično dejstvo. No, na podoben način, mi lahko nekaj izkušamo, ampak če ne vidimo natančno, si lahko nekaj narobe interpretiramo. Isto velja za nenatančna duhovna videnja. Ko izboljšamo svoj vid, se lažne interpretacije tudi lahko zaznajo. To, da sem jaz vse in to da sem jaz izvorni absolutni kreator, je napačna interpretacija nenatančnega duhovnega videnja, izkušnje. To se jasno vidi, ko vidiš večno resnico glede sebe kdo si.

 

Super, potem pa zaključiva.. Saj "taka" oseba ti pa res ne more nič več dati..

 

Znova in znova si mi dajal potrditve, da si nenatančno videl in iz tega imaš tudi neizogibno še določene napačne interpretacije in verjetja, ki v praksi ne zdržijo vode in kar se kaže tudi v tvoji praktični nestabilnosti. Hvala za to. Ja, takih videnj in korakov do njih ne potrebujem. Ampak vseeno mi lahko še nekaj daš. Prosim te za tvojo iskrenost. Pripravljenost da izkusiš absolutno resnico glede sebe.

[*glas*]

Vbistvu imaš v "svetih spisi", ki jih tako ceniš vse to kar ti jaz opisujem, tudi opisano..

In če je tisto res tvoja pot, poskusi čez tisto razumeti, če že od mene ne moreš..

[mgd]

Vbistvu imaš v "svetih spisi", ki jih tako ceniš vse to kar ti jaz opisujem, tudi opisano..

In če je tisto res tvoja pot, poskusi čez tisto razumeti, če že od mene ne moreš..

 

Ni res, v svetih spisih ne piše tega kar ti pišeš, tam je le resnica, brez napačnih interpretacij, ki jih ti pišeš. Zakaj spet pišeš neresnice? Kar piše v svetih spisih mi je že jasno in zarad tega in tud na podlagi lastnih izkušenj mi je tud jasno da ti pišeš napačne, prenapihnjene interpretacije zarad nenatančnih izkušenj. Ni se ti treba prikrajševat. Resnica je taka kakršna je in se ne bo spremenila, zato je zate boljš da jo sprejmeš in dobiš mir.

[*glas*]

Ni res, v svetih spisih ne piše tega kar ti pišeš, tam je le resnica, brez napačnih interpretacij, ki jih ti pišeš. Zakaj spet pišeš neresnice? Kar piše v svetih spisih mi je že jasno in zarad tega in tud na podlagi lastnih izkušenj mi je tud jasno da ti pišeš napačne, prenapihnjene interpretacije zarad nenatančnih izkušenj. Ni se ti treba prikrajševat. Resnica je taka kakršna je in se ne bo spremenila, zato je zate boljš da jo sprejmeš in dobiš mir.

 

Je res!

Tam imaš vse enako opisano..

In če bi ti razumel kaj tam piše, se potem ne bi name in na mojo doživljanje/izkušnje spravljal..

Ker prvo kot prvo, bi razumel kaj sem doživel in kaj opisujem.. Drug kot drugo, pa ne bi teh kontradikcij doživljal skozi moje opise, ti predstavljajo mejo, do kod "razumeš", od koder dalje pa še nimaš dostopa..

[mgd]

Je res!

Tam imaš vse enako opisano..

In če bi ti razumel kaj tam piše, se potem ne bi name in na mojo doživljanje/izkušnje spravljal..

Ker prvo kot prvo, bi razumel kaj sem doživel in kaj opisujem.. Drug kot drugo, pa ne bi teh kontradikcij doživljal skozi moje opise, ti predstavljajo mejo, do kod "razumeš", od koder dalje pa še nimaš dostopa..

 

A lahko citiraš ta opis in lokacijo (kater sveti spis, kater verz itd.)?

[*glas*]

A lahko citiraš ta opis in lokacijo (kater sveti spis, kater verz itd.)?

 

Ne vem, pa saj to bi moral ti poznati, če si izvedenec za njih..

A naj zdaj sprašujem nekoga, da ti poišče kitico in verz..

glede nato kako tukaj pridigaš, bi moral na pamet poznati gito, ne pa da ne veš sploh, da je to opisovano notri..

 

Nekdo, ki se očitno malo bolj kot ti spozna v te spise mi je enkrat govoril.. da to kar jaz govorim, da je identično opisovano v teh svetih spisih..

Krišna, ko opisuje Arjuni, opisuje iz "tega prostora", ki ga tudi jaz tukaj včasih opisujem..

In ravno "ta prostor" je tebi največji kamen spotike in govoriš, kot da je to bogoskrunstvo, če to tako opisujem, kot opisujem.. in da če to tako opisujem, da to pomeni, da sem vse popolnoma pobrkal..

[mgd]

Ne vem, pa saj to bi moral ti poznati, če si izvedenec za njih..

A naj zdaj sprašujem nekoga, da ti poišče kitico in verz..

glede nato kako tukaj pridigaš, bi moral na pamet poznati gito, ne pa da ne veš sploh, da je to opisovano notri..

 

Ti si omenil da je opisano, zato sem te vprašal za citat. V Bhagavad Giti takih opisov kot si jih dajal ti ni. Nikjer ne piše da je ultimativno samo ena vseprisotna zavest itd.

 

Nekdo, ki se očitno malo bolj kot ti spozna v te spise mi je enkrat govoril.. da to kar jaz govorim, da je identično opisovano v teh svetih spisih..

Krišna, ko opisuje Arjuni, opisuje iz "tega prostora", ki ga tudi jaz tukaj včasih opisujem..

In ravno "ta prostor" je tebi največji kamen spotike in govoriš, kot da je to bogoskrunstvo, če to tako opisujem, kot opisujem.. in da če to tako opisujem, da to pomeni, da sem vse popolnoma pobrkal..

 

Aha, slišal si od nekoga in mu verjel. No ta nekdo se na Bhagavad Gito ne spozna, če ti je rekel kaj takega. V Bhagavad Giti Bhagavad Šri Krišna ne opisuje iz "tega prostora" Arjuni. Šri Krišna v Bhagavad Giti sam razodene resnico da ni nič enakega ali višjega od Njega in da je vse povezano z Njim in da je On Izvor iz katerega vse izhaja in da je On večni izvor in lastnik vseh večnih različnih individualnih zavestnih živih bitij (in kaj je vzrok da so eni pogojeni in eni ne, tj. zloraba njihove relativne svobodne volje) in da je On lastnik vse materialne energije in da je On edini gospodar in uživalec vseh in vsega. Pove tudi o svoji večni duhovni obliki in jo tudi razodene Arjuni. Pove da je On vzrok neosebnega Brahmana in lokalizirane Nadduše. Pove da je on Vsevišnja Božanska Osebnost in resnični prijatelj in dobronamernik vseh živih bitij in da so njegove aktivnosti Božanske, ne materialne. Pove tudi da ga ne moreš spoznat brez ljubezni do Njega. Pove tudi, da se nihče ne more odrešit Njegove zavajajoče slepilne energije maye brez da se preda Njemu. In še veliko drugih stvari. Tko da to kar je napisano v Bhagavad Giti direktno ovrže tvoje opise, da je ultimativno le ena vseprisotna zavest in da si ti kot ta vseprisotna zavest (ocean) absolutni kreator vseh in vsega. V Bhagavad Giti Bhagavan Šri Krišna direktno pove, da si ti kot večni delček ene izmed Njegovih energij Njegov večni služabnik in da je zate najbolje da ga služiš. S tem boš odrešen vseh možnih neprijetnosti, ujetosti, omejitev in boš dosegel polno izpolnitev.

[*glas*]

Predvidevam, da si jo velikokrat prebral..

in če res samo to notri vidiš, kar opisuješ..

potem pa ti res še samo bog lahko pomaga (v tvojem primeru Krišna..), da ti odpre oči, da vidiš še kaj več in da dojameš celoto..

 

Zdaj bi še mene rad pripravil do tega, da začnem verze iz gite citirat in skozi to svojo zgodbo pripovedovat..

haha saj bi lahko, ampak se mi res ne da..

[mgd]

Predvidevam, da si jo velikokrat prebral..

in če res samo to notri vidiš, kar opisuješ..

potem pa ti res še samo bog lahko pomaga (v tvojem primeru Krišna..), da ti odpre oči, da vidiš še kaj več in da dojameš celoto..

 

Ja, Bhagavad Gito sem že velikrat prebral in še jo bom. To so transcendentalne duhovne besede Boga, Šri Krišne, za našo večno dobrobit. Vsa resnica je podana in tudi proces kako jo spoznat. Drgač ni da je Krišna "bog v mojem primeru", Krišna je Bog za vse. On je Izvor in kontrolor vseh nas živih bitij in vsi smo večno odvisni od Njega. Očitno je da ti Bhagavad Gite še nisi prebral. Na podlagi nekoga, ki ti je govoril da naj bi "tisto nekaj" pisalo v Bhagavad Giti mu verjameš in na podlagi tega si trdil da tisto res piše v Bhagavad Giti. No, ker tega tam ni, ampak je ravno tisto ovrženo, sem te pozval da citiraš tist opis in ga nisi. In zdaj spet praviš naj mi Krišna odpre oči da vidim še kaj več in da dojamem celoto. Kaj več in katera celota naj bi to bila na podlagi Bhagavad Gite oz. Krišne in če lahko daš citat? Drgač ne razumem zakaj uporabljaš ime Bhagavad Gite in Krišne da bi promoviral eno svojo trditev, ne podaš pa citata iz tam.

 

Bhagavan Šri Krišna pravi v Bhagavad Giti:

 

mattah parataram nanyat

kincid asti dhananjaya

mayi sarvam idam protam

sutre mani-gana iva

TRANSLATION

O conquerer of wealth [Arjuna], there is no Truth superior to Me. Everything rests upon Me, as pearls are strung on a thread.

 

aham sarvasya prabhavo

mattah sarvam pravartate

iti matva bhajante mam

budha bhava-samanvitah

TRANSLATION

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.

brahmaṇo hi pratiṣṭhāham

I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman

Bg 15.18 — Because I am transcendental, beyond both the fallible and the infallible, and because I am the greatest, I am celebrated both in the world and in the Vedas as that Supreme Person.

Bg 15.19 — Whoever knows Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, without doubting, is the knower of everything. He therefore engages himself in full devotional service to Me, O son of Bharata.

Bg 15.20 — This is the most confidential part of the Vedic scriptures, O sinless one, and it is disclosed now by Me. Whoever understands this will become wise, and his endeavors will know perfection.

In kakšno je spoznanje Arjune:

 

Bg 11.43 — You are the father of this complete cosmic manifestation, of the moving and the nonmoving. You are its worshipable chief, the supreme spiritual master. No one is greater than You, nor can anyone be one with You. How then could there be anyone greater than You within the three worlds, O Lord of immeasurable power?

Bg 11.44 — You are the Supreme Lord, to be worshiped by every living being. Thus I fall down to offer You my respectful obeisances and ask Your mercy. As a father tolerates the impudence of his son, a friend the impertinence of a friend, or a husband the familiarity of his wife, please tolerate the wrongs I may have done You.

Bg 18.73 — Arjuna said: My dear Kṛṣṇa, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy. I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions.

Se prav o čemu "več" in o kateri "celoti" na podlagi Bhagavad Gite, Krišne ali Arjune ti govoriš?

 

Zdaj bi še mene rad pripravil do tega, da začnem verze iz gite citirat in skozi to svojo zgodbo pripovedovat..

haha saj bi lahko, ampak se mi res ne da..

 

Nisem te jaz pripravljal do tega, ampak ti si omenjal da piše v Bhagavad Giti in pošteno je da potem to tudi citiraš, drgač le uporabljaš ime za promoviranje nečesa drugega.

[*glas*]

Sem prebral..

Nima smisla, da ti citiram, ker ti enake stvari vidiš drugače, ker pač z mentalom zlagaš prebrane resnice v neko svojo logično sliko..

in na tak način ne moreš priti do globljih resnic..

edino ko um sledi izkušnji pride do vedenja.. vse ostalo je mentaliziranje..

vso srečo z prebiranjem še naprej..

[mgd]

Nekdo, ki se očitno malo bolj kot ti spozna v te spise mi je enkrat govoril.. da to kar jaz govorim, da je identično opisovano v teh svetih spisih..

Krišna, ko opisuje Arjuni, opisuje iz "tega prostora", ki ga tudi jaz tukaj včasih opisujem..

 

 

Sem prebral..

 

Res si ti prebral Bhagavad Gito?

[*glas*]

Res si ti prebral Bhagavad Gito?

 

Saj sem že napisal zgoraj.. ali?

 

Drugače pa zakaj imaš ti sploh tako obsesijo z mano?

Dokazal si mi že, da da moje izkušnje niso prave, dokazal si svojo superiornost in vse..

Ti sam pa si tako našel že svojo najbolj popolno pot in nič druga več ne iščeš.

Tako da prepusti se potem temu čemur tako verjameš, ne pa da ne veš ali bi se ob strani še za mano malo usmerjal..

[mgd]

Saj sem že napisal zgoraj.. ali?

 

Hotu sem vidt in da še drugi vidjo kolk si lahko iskren. Ker tudi to kaže na nivo/globino tvoje izkušnje. Krišna, ki prebiva v tvojem srcu vse vid kaj delaš, misliš. In On daje rezultate.

 

Drugače pa zakaj imaš ti sploh tako obsesijo z mano?

Dokazal si mi že, da da moje izkušnje niso prave, dokazal si svojo superiornost in vse..

Ti sam pa si tako našel že svojo najbolj popolno pot in nič druga več ne iščeš.

Tako da prepusti se potem temu čemur tako verjameš, ne pa da ne veš ali bi se ob strani še za mano malo usmerjal..

 

Krišna vidi tudi kakšne nalepke želiš limat name in zakaj. Nisem rekel da tvoje izkušnje niso prave, ampak da niso še celotne, končne, glede tega kdo si in kaj je zate najboljša aktivnost in da so zato zraven pripete še prenapihnjene in zavajajoče interpretacije. Ko boš šel v svojem spoznanju naprej jih boš lahko zaznal in opustil kot zavajajoče in omejujoče. Del moje (in od vseh) popolne poti je tudi da poveš kaj je res in kaj ni in s tem pomagaš tudi drugim pri sprejetju resnice. Zakaj si napisal da jaz ne vem ali bi se ob strani še za tabo malo usmerjal? Kaj maš od teh nalepk? Da specifične svoje ohranjaš. Boljš je bit kdor si, brez vseh nalepk in delovat v skladu s tem.

[*glas*]

Saj kot pravim..

Če imaš pa že obsesijo z mano, ti jo lahko tudi jaz pomagam odpraviti..

Ampak bodi vsaj toliko načeln, da jo poskušaš sam in se usmeriš nazaj k sebi in poti ki jo že slediš.

 

Kar se najine debate tiče, sem ti v tem času pokazal že dovolj mehanizmov in načinov, kako se lahko premika še naprej, od kjer si zdaj.. Ko in če boš želel, boš že poprijel za njih in si drznil..

In to kar dajem, lahko uporabiš tudi na tisti poti, po kateri potuješ že sedaj.. ker to kar lahko najdeš znotraj mojega pisanja so univerzalne stvari in jih lahko uporabi kdorkoli kjerkoli in na katerikoli način..

[mgd]

Saj kot pravim..

Če imaš pa že obsesijo z mano, ti jo lahko tudi jaz pomagam odpraviti..

Ampak bodi vsaj toliko načeln, da jo poskušaš sam in se usmeriš nazaj k sebi in poti ki jo že slediš.

 

Kar se najine debate tiče, sem ti v tem času pokazal že dovolj mehanizmov in načinov, kako se lahko premika še naprej, od kjer si zdaj.. Ko in če boš želel, boš že poprijel za njih in si drznil..

In to kar dajem, lahko uporabiš tudi na tisti poti, po kateri potuješ že sedaj.. ker to kar lahko najdeš znotraj mojega pisanja so univerzalne stvari in jih lahko uporabi kdorkoli kjerkoli in na katerikoli način..

 

Glede tega se strinjava da duhovnega se ne da vidt z umom in intelektom, ker je onkraj njunega dometa. Lahko le če se direktno povežeš z njim.

[mgd]

By B. R. Sridhara Deva Goswami

All the top sages and saints were assembled on the banks of the Ganges, and Pariksit Maharaja put forth the question, “Death is sure for me within seven days. How can I utilize my time? You are so many authorities, and by the grace of the Lord, you have fortunately assembled here. I am at your disposal. Help me, that after this certain death I may attain blissful life.”

Then, according to their stages of realization, they gave advice. Some said yoga (meditation), some recommended tapasya (religious penance), some danam (charity), and so on.

But Pariksit Maharaja again very humbly submitted, “Please give some unanimous verdict so it will be easy for me to follow your advice.” They were discussing and consulting amongst themselves, but differences were going on in their opinions. At that very time, Sukadeva Goswami appeared.

A young man of sixteen, without any dress—naked—but a good figure; beautiful, stout, and strong. Appearing as though half mad, he entered the assembly. Some boys ran behind him, throwing dust and this and that, just as to a madman. The whole assembly stood in respect and the boys disappeared. All conjectured, “This must be that Suka about whom we have heard but not had the chance of seeing. Perhaps that boy has come?” So all rose in respect, and then they could recognize him. Vyasadeva was also there. So Sukadeva Goswami was welcomed, and unanimously he was given the chair of the speaker.

Then all the leading gentry of dharmic India of the time unanimously said, “We are all very eager to hear from this you. Pariksit Maharaja, you are greatly fortunate. Your fortune has attracted Sukadeva; so put questions to him, and let us all hear submissively. We have got a very good opportunity, and we want to hear him speak. We have waited for a long time to know his realization. In his eyes, there is no distinction of man or woman. Women do not see anything in his eyes that they feel the necessity of shyness. Such is his vision, which is not fixed in any worldly plane. There is no charm of any worldly thing in his heart. His eyes, his everything is meant for something transcendental. So we are very eager to know his realization.”

Sukadeva Goswami also gave his own introduction. He expressed his own position: “parinisthito ‘pi nairgunye: I was standardly trained in transcendental knowledge, and I am established there. But, uttamah-slokalilaya grhitaceta, my attention has been forcibly snatched to some higher cosmos, above the transcendental impersonal conception.”

Generally, the philosophers of this world take the transcendental to be impersonal. Infinite and zero are of the same characteristic. So it is an area in which we cannot have any entrance as a subject for investigation. The subject has its stand far below; he can only conjecture some hazy thing. This is the position of the jiva soul. So his view is only something cloudy, like the sky. So the spiritual sky is also seen as one sees an infinite blue sky, that is, Brahman. Non-differentiated, non-specified, infinite space that we cannot have any practical experience of. Nirguna. That is the summation of all negation. To us, the positive experience is confined only to this world. This ear-experience, this eye-experience, touch-experience, etc. Our property here is the sum total of these experiences and something drawn from the mental world. This is saguna. And all this experience fails to have any conjecture of that background, which is nirguna. All experiences are absent there. The positive knowledge of our experience is completely absent there. So that is nirguna—or so we are told by the philosophers of this world.

But then there comes uttamah-sloka lilaya. Nothing mundane is to be traced there. This is beyond all conceptions of ignorance, beyond misconception. Sloka means charitra, ‘conduct.’ A flow of life is to be traced there which cannot be compared with anything of this mundane jurisdiction. A higher conception of life, rather, the highest conception of life. Sukadeva said, “I am captured totally by the charm of that sort of life, that sort of pastimes, that sort of flow of nectarean activity. I have come in connection with this—grhitaceta rajarse—my understanding has been forcibly carried and engaged there. I can’t come away; I can’t come down from that charming land. Ukhyanam yad dhitavan, so I had to come to my father Vedavyasa. Before this, he tried his best to take me to that direction, but I didn’t care to know about it. I had to return to my father, and as a regular student, I had to study the ways and nature of that higher entity.

Tadaham te ‘bhidhasyami mahapaurusiko bhavan. “Maharaja Pariksit, you are a great personality, and it is befitting you have the highest prospect of life, the highest end. You are fortunate to receive that sort of attainment. I shall just try to give you the news of my experience of the transcendental lila of the reality the beautiful, divine love.”

With this introduction, Sukadeva began to deliver his lecture, which continued for seven days. Through different questions and answers, Krishna lila was established, and all the dharmic authorities of the time very submissively gave their hearing to the teachings of Sukadeva Goswami in the form of Srimad-Bhagavatam.

[mgd]

še malo bolj v detajle, za tiste ki želijo

 

Question: In the Bhagavad-gita, Krishna says:

bahunam janmanam ante
jñanavan mam prapadyate
vasudevah sarvam iti
sa mahatma sudurlabhah
(Bg. 7.19)

“After many, many births, the jñani, person in knowledge (who happens to achieve the association of My pure devotee) finally comes to understand that the whole universe of moving and stationary beings is of the nature of Vasudeva, alone, in as much all are subordinate to Vasudeva. (I, as Vasudeva am the source and substance of all that be.) Having grasped this conception, he surrenders unto Me. Know such a great soul to be extremely rare.”

What exactly is the meaning, here?

Srila Sridhar Maharaj: From brahman conception, the different installments follow. In brahman realisation, there is a ‘mass’ of consciousness: ‘all-consciousness’. Then, the next step will come: the consciousness is of individual character – with deeper vision, individuality is added to consciousness. There is consciousness plus individuality.

In fact, no consciousness can exist without individuality, without personality. So, the consciousness is personal; personality and consciousness, they cannot be separated, one from the other. What is differentiated from personality, that is only the halo of the personality – it is something like that. And that ‘halo’ – that brahman– is also the combination of minutest personality, of souls.

Substance is of two kinds: ksara, or changing, perishable; and aksara, unchanging, eternal. In the Bhagavad-gita (15:16) Lord Krishna says: ksarah sarvani bhutani – whatever we see in the changing aspect of the world, that is called ksara. And what is unchangeable is called aksara. Then, He says:

yasmat ksaram atito ‘ham
aksarad api chottamah
ato ‘smi loke vede cha
prathitah purusottamah
(Bg 15:18)

“My existence transcends both of these two substances, ksara – aksara. So, I am purusottamah – My name is ‘Purusottama’. My glories are sung in the world and in the scriptures, as Purusottama, the Supreme Person.”

‘Purusottama’ means Vasudeva. So, bahunam janmanam ante…; after many births, when the jñanis, those of the impersonal school, come to understand that the Prime Cause of the consciousness of their quest is a personal one, then they come to conceive of Vasudeva.

But such jñanis are very rarely to be found. Mostly, jñanis cannot cross this line. They are lost there:

ye ‘nye ‘ravindaksa vimukta-maninas
tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha buddhayah
aruhya krchchhrena param padam tatah
patanty adho ‘nadrta-yusmad anghrayah
(SB 10:2:32)

“O lotus-eyed Lord, although non-devotees who accept severe penances and austerities to achieve the highest position may think themselves liberated, their intelligence remains impure. They simply speculate in various ways and do not seek the means to take shelter of You. Because they have no regard for Your lotus feet, they simply fall down from their position of imagined superiority into material existence again.”

Generally, it is the fate of the jñanis to climb up to the highest position with great effort, and then, when they cannot grasp that ‘consciousness’ means ‘person’ – they cannot cross that understanding – they have to revert back. They have to come back, fall back. And for those who can cross this line, who can understand that: “Yes, consciousness means person – a Big Personality. I am small…;” bhakti begins there. The relation of subordination of the lower to the Higher, that comes into effect. And, sa mahatma sudurlabhah – such a person among the jñanis is very rarely to be found, who can take the positive connection of the higher aspect of life. Mostly they come back, they have to come back from there. After much penance, they climb up to that high mark, but they cannot accommodate that “the higher entity must be dealt with devotion,” so they have to come back.

But those who realise: vasudevah sarvam iti, that Vasudeva – Purusottama – is personal, they can ‘cross the line’ and enter Vaikuntha, the service area proper.

And there, we are told, gradually as their vision grows more and more, they can find potency on the side of the personal God. Then they become the devotees of Lakshmi-Narayana, and enter completely into Vaikuntha-seva. And in that service, we find awe, reverence; there are sastric (scriptural) rules, and also examples of the higher-realised souls, to guide them.

And in that Vaikuntha-seva, if the soul does not find the whole of his innate nature having full engagement, there will be some sort of thirst, some inner tendency which cannot find any corresponding relation to satisfy itself. And when he feels this kind of urge from within, he has to search after another, for a purer, more friendly service than the filial service.

And ultimately the madhura-rasa service – the sweetheart’s service, in consorthood – urges him to go up. It urges him to go up, and to go deeper. And gradually, by coming in contact with such (madhura-rasa) agents, he finds his own heart blossoming. And blossoming to its fullest extent, his heart takes him gradually towards Goloka Vrindavana…

Then he can see that what was (initially realised as) brahman; then Paramatma, or Vasudeva; then Lakshmi-Narayana, that has gradually come to him as Krishna consciousness, not Narayana consciousness. Superceding Narayana consciousness he comes in contact with Krishna consciousness of the Reality. He is awakened – he finds himself awakened in a plane where he sees the all-connecting, all-harmonising principle is no longer Narayana, but Krishna – He is showing Himself as Krishna. Then he is fully awakened, and at the same time he sees that the environment, and the object of his search, is also fully equipped. This is full-fledged theism.

Full-fledged theism – where the theistic conviction receives its satisfaction in the fullest way. Just as, with the opening of the eye we can see the world, and according to the degree of out sight we come to see the subtlest thing of the environment, so also, by our inner awakenment of the fullest type, we come to a particular world, environment, and that is Vrindavana – Goloka Vrindavana, the land of love. And movement there is spontaneous; and all around, we find the environment only friendly. It is so simple, so friendly; and the dealings of all who are there are filled with so much intimacy.

And in Vrindavana we will find that our thirst for any higher change of environment, of association, no longer needs to be quenched; but there is thirst, eternal thirst, for coming in closer relation with them, closer connection with them. There is no possibility of any higher change of environment – where he has reached is almost final – and now the only remaining thing, is how to come into a more and more close connection with the environment. And that becomes the initiative of our movement there: more and more intimate connection with the environment. The environment is eternal, but in the intimacy of connection – the ‘competition’ (in loving service), the movement, is there. And the guidance is given according to that.

In this way, there is progress. There is some sort of ‘necessity’, by which the service is moving. And, there is repetition – a kind of ‘repetition’, but it is ever-fresh, ever-new! It is ever-new, and it is only a question of the time. For example, every day when I am hungry, in the morning, food is tasteful to me, and not always – by the movement of the time, it is like that. In this way, everything is palatable, not stale. In that plane, there is movement of time, but it is eternal. It is managed by yogamaya in such a way.

And finally, there we will attain the fullest satisfaction of all the inner parts of our system, the wholesale satisfaction of every atom of every constituent part of our spiritual body: priti anga lage kale, priti anga mora – “Every part of my every limb, cries for union with the corresponding part of every limb of the other side.” Sambandha – relationship with the environment – may come to such a stage, that every atom consistuting my spiritual body and mind, will aspire after union with every corresponding part of the environment.

In this way, in such a friendly way, so many are moving there, and it is adjusted accordingly by yogamaya. And this is the highest conception.

Priti anga lage kale, priti anga mora – “Every atom of my existence is in loving aspiration with the environment, and that is Krishna. Krishna consciousness has surrounded me.” ‘Surrounded me’ means, “From all sides it has embraced me; I am lost in the thought of Krishna consciousness, with its detailed, elaborate acquaintance. I am merged, merged in the deepest part of Krishna consciousness, where I shall find “Krishna has captured every atom of my existence. Every atom is feeling as if it is experiencing separate pleasure by His embracing…”

This is possible only in consorthood relationship, where every atom has been embraced, captured, by coming into the most intimate connection with Him. It is called adi-rasa, or mukhya-rasa. The name of Madhurya-rasa is adi-rasa, that is, it is the most original, it is the source of all other rasas, and all other rasas are dependent on it. So it is called ‘adi-rasa‘. And, mukhya-rasa: the sum total of all ‘rasas‘ – their gist, their essence, is represented here. We are told like that.

And Mahaprabhu came with this gift – madhurya-rasa. It is anarpita charim chirat, “that which was never distributed before” – that of which, it is considered, any distribution was not possible previously, before Him.

In Bhaktivinode Thakur’s book Jaiva Dharma, we find that one Vaishnava is asking his Gurudeva; “Devotion, it is eternal; but why do you say that it came from Mahaprabhu?” Then his Guru, Paramahamsa Babaji, is saying, “I visited Vrindavana and asked the eternal servitor of Sri Chaitanyadeva, Sanatana Goswami: “This anarpita charim chirat – “which has never been dealt with before” – what is the meaning underlying it?” Then Sanatana Goswami replied: “Bhakti is eternal; in ‘Narada-bhakti-sutra‘, ‘Sandilya-sutra‘, all such scriptures, this has been given – but the type of devotion which Mahaprabhu came with, which we meet after the advent of Mahaprabhu Sri Chaitanyadeva, that was not previously at any time open to the ordinary person. So, it is called ‘anarpita charim‘. And what is that standard of devotion? It is this: complete surrender to Krishna in consorthood, where every atom of the jiva-soul gets welcomed and embraced by the corresponding atom of Krishna consciousness – madhura-rasa. That was not open to the public before. This is my finding, my faith. You may accept, or not accept…” Sanatana Goswami told like this to that Vaishnava: “This is my prvate conception – you may take it, or not.” This was his reply.

So devotion has its beginning; the beginning of devotional life is here, where Krishna says ‘vasudevah sarvam iti…‘ (“I, Vasudeva, am the source and substance of all that be” – Bg 7:19). Then, the beginning of bhakti, the primary admission into the devotional school above jñana (knowledge) and vairagya (renunciation), that is santa-rasa (‘passive’ relation with the Lord). And from there, the gradation: dasya-rasa (servitude); then sakhya-rasa (fraternity); then vatsalya-rasa (parenthood); then madhura-rasa (conjugal love). All this is given in details in Ramananda-samvada.

In this way, bhakti is going up. Systematically, we are to understand, and digest, digest what is bhakti. But, in the beginning, we are to have a broad conception of the positive world, the world of dedication.

[mgd]

Če je kdo že pripravljen...

 

Self Effulgent Soul

Srila B.R. Sridhara Maharaj

He, the Lord wants to shift us from this fascination with the wonders of material science, and the tree of knowledge, but we are fascinated with this shadow play, and our curiosity has brought us to this foreign land. But jnana-sunya-bhakti, devotional service says, give up this satanic quest for empirical yet still mundane information. Don’t allow yourself to be misguided by such a material magic show like this technological wizardry, it is all a perverted reflection of the real world of wonder. Give up all your mundane endeavour, just try to find out who you are, you are a self-effulgent soul and this is the dire necessity within all. So stop! Dive deep into your own self, your personification proper, it is such a wonderful conception, so diametrically opposite to this mundane and mental world. What to speak of Paramatma, the super soul in all. Narayana and Swayam Bhagavan the full fledged Theistic reality.

 

Is such an astonishing thing possible? The atma- eternal, all knowing, all pure, sat-chit-ananda. Without food or sleep it can continue as a member of the eternal plane. Atma is self-effulgent, it can reveal itself and others also, and by its own realization we can comparatively know what is non-atma, not soul, by feeling the position of your atma. So give up the wild goose chase and use all your energetic movement in the search for your real identity, then you can seek out the necessary things for the application of your development and ultimately your constant engagement, try to know and inquire into the plane of love and beauty, to taste that real food, not the food from the witch or enchantress of this temporary world. A higher prospect you have, you are not meant for this temporary solution.

 

Just the realization of your own soul, can suffice to create a sensation of wonder in your mental plane for real spiritual life, enough to outweigh all the immeasurable so called wonders of this material world, like going to the moon, or any such aspiration within this material sphere. By the help of your pure intelligence you can rise up to the level where your very soul exists, and it alone will sufficiently purify. That can give a glimpse of a new world, whose comparison can never be compared within this scientific world of trash, however astonishing it may be.

Without proper attention to learning the alphabet from abcd, we cannot hope to have the pleasure of reading a full novel and entering the story.

atmaramasca munayo
nirgranthaapy urukrame
kuruanty-ahaitukambhaktim
itham-bhua-gunoharih

So many experts have laboured hard to understand their soul. But even with self realization it is still difficult to go up. Even they are captured by the charm of their own existence, as we are charmed by this body and its food, the liberated souls are also charmed by their own souls’ position and do not want anything else, atmaram. But there is a superior world made of stuff far finer than that which we are composed. Generally that so-called spiritualist is thinking there can’t be anything higher than this position we're in, it is all imaginary and speculation. But those who are really from that land, when they come here as agents, with their help we can pass to that other world. We should always try to keep in front of us the model of our great master and Lord Mahaprabhu and those others who are showing us the way. How all those highly qualified stalwarts are approaching towards Vrindavan with such heartfelt reverence and respect. We can’t touch how wonderful it is.

This ordinary material conception of the infinite, the sound, sight of the eye, the colour, the touch, so many infinite forms are there and even there we hold such a negligent position, yet this in itself is finite, but the atom, the electron, the stars and this finite world appears so big and infinite to us. Then to taste the depths of spiritual infinity and who is the potency of the source of infinity, not only that, He says, "My every part is infinite.”

Through service to God and His dear servitors you will find satisfaction within you, thousands of times more in quality. The atma is the real sun and by the light of the soul we can see everything, the mind and false ego are like clouds covering the sun or soul. Without light there is no world, without soul, no world, the soul is the basis of all expression, all knowledge, anything, you can feel,touch, see, hear, is all dependent on the soul. If it is withdrawn,then all is dead matter. Just as the sun is giving light to the whole world, similarly the soul is giving light to all this phenomenon, bright and dark, hard and soft. Only because the feeling atma is present, do all these things have meaning, through consciousness.

If we can only come into contact with our own self, with that soul within us. I must have realization of my own proper self, then I will have confidence to go on to the substantial real and eternal world beyond this transient lower existence, and beyond the tatasta marginal realm which is in between this material world and the spiritual world.

evambuddheh param buddhva
samstabhyatmanamatmana
jahisatrum maha-baho
kama-rupamdurasadam

This is Krishna’s recommendation of how to conquer all our lust for the mundane world in one stroke, all can be smashed in one blow when you come to understand that this soul, that we are, is such a dignified and noble unit. If you can find that basis then that noble world will be open to you in reality, not just imagination. Your affinity for the sense experience world will be finished for good. This is the key of success to controlling this mundane charm. Then our progress will be valuable and prosperous. Socrates was murdered in the name of religion for his statement that “The soul is immortal” the people of this world were disturbed by this threat to their worldly existence. Christ also threatened the complacency of the people by claiming God exists and we belong in His world not this mortal temporary place. Any way we can, we should try to contact those agents who are from that domain and they will secure a visa for us. We must strictly rely on the divine association of our guardians who live in their spiritual identity.