Dosje gaucho

[Danilo]

Torej Marko si ta pravi ''forumaš'' hi....

[Jernej S.]

Danes so me čebele dobro zaposlile, saj sta me na drevesu pričakala kar dva roja... hu, hu..

[Danilo]

Lepa PRVOAPRLSKA

[Marko Hrastelj]

Ja pa kje je blo to objavljeno - ker bi se dal to skenirat pa pol skoz recognito prešaltat in pol na internet dat    

Aja, a pol nisi prebral kaj piše na linku. Je nekaj povezav na stran ČZS, pa mislim, da ena na dnevnik. Nič novega za nas, je pa zanimivo, da so tudi drugi opazili, da nekaj ni povsem v redu.

 

Danilo: ja, forumaš. Ta način mi zelo odgovarja. Irc mi ni preveč ustrezal, mailing liste so tud včasih malo čudne, forumi so pa zelo fajn zadeva.

[Marko Hrastelj]

Danes so me čebele dobro zaposlile, saj sta me na drevesu pričakala kar dva roja... hu, hu..

Seveda iz istega panja, ker maš tako močne čebele

[BeeKeeper]

Danes so me čebele dobro zaposlile, saj sta me na drevesu pričakala kar dva roja... hu, hu..

Seveda iz istega panja, ker maš tako močne čebele

Verjetno je še danes na drevesu, ker toliko čebel ne moreš v enem dnevu dol spravit

 

Ampak priznajmo to je bil najboljši štos na forumu za prvi april.

 

ČESTITAM

[Danilo]

Ja meni tudi forum najbolj odgovarja samo rabil bi kabelski ali ADSL dostop potem bi blo znosno

[BeeKeeper]

Aja, a pol nisi prebral kaj piše na linku. Je nekaj povezav na stran ČZS, pa mislim, da ena na dnevnik. Nič novega za nas, je pa zanimivo, da so tudi drugi opazili, da nekaj ni povsem v redu.

Na katerem linku Marko

[BeeKeeper]

Ja meni tudi forum najbolj odgovarja samo rabil bi kabelski ali ADSL dostop potem bi blo znosno

Jaz sem predaleč od centrale za ADSL o kablu tu gor v hribih pa lahko sanjam. Edino če postavijo kakšno vojaško letališče pol bi mogoče kaj bilo.

[Marko Hrastelj]

Tale link se skriva pod besedo zanimivo:

 

http://www.slo-tech.com/script/forum/izpis...8177#neprebrano

[Danilo]

JJ boš pa prek satelita zrihtal tud to obstaja samo ne vem za povratek rabiš še zmeraj telefonsko linijo , če se ne motim.

Pr men je tud d... na centrali še ni ruterja in torej ne morem dobit ADSL kabelcka pa nima optičnega voda sedaj se dogovarjajo z železnico, da bi naredili omarico kot veš je železnica tik pod mano in železnica pa ima optični ( širokopasovni) vod bomo videli kaj bo prej tja gre!?

[Jernej S.]

Ja, tole o rojih je bila res prvoaprilska

Sem mislil, da bo še kdo drug kako hudo ven ruknil...pa drugo leto

[Danilo]

Veš nekako enim ni do šal letos kajti to leto nam nič kaj prida ne kaže od subencij, ki jih eni ne boste dobili do Gaucha in še lega....

[BeeKeeper]

Zraven avtocest in železnice je povsod optični kabel - mislim pa da je še zraven električnih daljnovodov in da so trafo postaje vse povezane z opriko. Hudič je v koncesijah in iznajdljivosti. Pravzaprav bi lahko Slovenske železnice, ELES ter DARS tržili internetno telefonijo, internet, TV in še vse ostalo kar gre po kablu.

 

Telekom pa je mastodont in monopolist - uradniki ki urejajo trg pa elementarni enoumneži ki ne vidiji pet sekund pred sabo

[Danilo]

Ja se je kabel+ska z železnico meni samo veš kak je to dokler se ti birkrati premaknejo uhh.. :xx!:

[scopoli]

Pozdravljeni!

 

Zanima me, če je kaj novga o tej temi v slovenskem prostoru.Vnaprej hvala za informacije.

 

P.S:

Prilagam nekaj citatov v zvezi z imidaklopridom, člankov pa nimam.

 

Bull Environ Contam Toxicol. 2004 Feb;72(2):283-8. Related Articles, Links

Persistence of imidacloprid in/on cabbage and cauliflower.

Gajbhiye VT, Gupta S, Gupta RK

 

J Econ Entomol. 2003 Dec;96(6):1805-13. Related Articles, Links

Predatory fauna in cornfields and response to imidacloprid seed treatment.

Albajes R, Lopez C, Pons X

 

Ann Pharm Fr. 2004 Jan;62(1):29-35. Related Articles, Links

[systemic insecticides: new risk for pollinator insects]

[Article in French]

Charvet R, Katouzian-Safadi M, Colin ME, Marchand PA, Bonmatin JM.

Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire, CNRS et Universite Orleans, F45071 Orleans Cedex 02.

Imidacloprid, a new systemic insecticide used as seed-dressing, has been widely used in France since 1994. Its application mode and its efficiency allow a significant reduction in comparison with the usual quantity of chemicals used during pulverising treatment. But the insecticide imidacloprid is suspected to have harmful effects on the pollinators as many bees have died since its introduction. Recent studies have shown that imidacloprid has chronic and sub-lethal toxicities at levels of micro g/kg or less. It was therefore necessary to detect imidacloprid at these levels in soils, plants, flowers, and pollens. With this aim, we characterised the bio-availability of imidacloprid in the environment using a new quantitative analytical method, as a basis for the evaluation of the risk for bees.

 

J Agric Food Chem. 2003 Dec 31;51(27):8005-10. Related Articles, Links

Distribution of [(14)C]imidacloprid in sunflowers (Helianthus annuus L.) following seed treatment.

Laurent FM, Rathahao E.

INRA, UMR Xenobiotiques, B.P. 3, 180 chemin de Tournefeuille, 31931 Toulouse Cedex 9, France. flaurent@toulouse.inra.fr

Effects of imidacloprid and deltamethrin on associative learning in honeybees under semi-field and laboratory conditions

 

Decourtye A, Devillers J, Cluzeau S, Charreton M, Pham-Delegue MH

ECOTOXICOLOGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY

57 (3): 410-419 MAR 2004

Abstract:

We have compared the sublethal effects of two insecticides in the honeybee (imidacloprid and deltamethrin) in both semi-field and laboratory conditions. A sugar solution containing 24 mug kg(-1) of imidacloprid or 500 mug kg(-1) of deltamethrin was offered to a colony set in an outdoor flight cage. In contrast to imidacloprid, deltamethrin had lethal effect on workers bees. The contamination of syrup with imidacloprid or deltamethrin induced a decrease in both the foraging activity on the food source and activity at the hive entrance. Negative effects of imidacloprid were also observed in an olfactory learnt discrimination task. Free-flying foragers were taken from the contaminated feeder and subjected to a conditioned proboscis extension response (PER) assay under laboratory conditions. As with free-flying bees, no impact of deltamethrin was found on the learning performances of restrained individuals in the PER procedure, whilst significant effects were found with imidacloprid in both semi-field and laboratory conditions. © 2003 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

Addresses:

Pham-Delegue MH, INRA, Lab Neurobiol Comparee Invertebres, BP 23, F-91440 Bures Sur Yvette, France

INRA, Lab Neurobiol Comparee Invertebres, F-91440 Bures Sur Yvette, France

CTIS, F-69140 Rillieux La Pape, France

ACTA, F-75595 Paris, France

 

 

Mechanism for the differential toxicity of neonicotinoid insecticides in the honey bee, Apis mellifera

Iwasa T, Motoyama N, Ambrose JT, Roe RM

CROP PROTECTION

23 (5): 371-378 MAY 2004

Document type: Article Language: English

Abstract:

Laboratory bioassays were conducted to determine the contact honey bee toxicity of commercial and candidate neonicotinoid insecticides. The nitro-substituted compounds were the most toxic to the honey bee in our laboratory studies with LD50 values of 18 ng/bee for imidacloprid, 22 ng for clothianidin, 30 ng for thiamethoxam, -75, ng for dinotefuran and 138 ng for nitenpyram. The cyano-substituted neonicotinoids exhibited a much lower toxicity with LD50 values for acetamiprid and thiacloprid of 7.1 and 14.6 mug/bee, respectively. Piperonyl, butoxide, triflumizole and propiconazole increased honey bee toxicity of acetamiprid 6.0-, 244- and 105-fold and thiacloprid 154-, 1,141- and 559-fold, respectively, but had a minimal effect on imidacloprid (1.70, 1.85 and 1.52-fold, respectively). The acetamiprid metabolites, N-demethyl acetamiprid, 6-chloro-3-pyridylmethanol and 6-chloro-nicotinic acid when applied topically, produced no mortality at 50 mug/bee. These results suggest that P450s are an important mechanism for acetamiprid and thiacloprid detoxification and their low toxicity to honey bees. When honey bees were placed in cages in forced, contact with alfalfa treated with acetamiprid and the synergist, triflumizole, in combination at their maximum recommended application rates, no mortality was detected above that of the control. © 2003 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

Addresses:

Roe RM, N Carolina State Univ, Dept Entomol, Dearstyne Entomol Bldg,Campus Box 7647, Raleigh, NC 27695 USA

N Carolina State Univ, Dept Entomol, Raleigh, NC 27695 USA

 

Human intestinal absorption of imidacloprid with Caco-2 cells as enterocyte model

Brunet JL, Maresca M, Fantini J, Belzunces LP

TOXICOLOGY AND APPLIED PHARMACOLOGY

194 (1): 1-9 JAN 1 2004

Document type: Article Language: English

Abstract:

In order to assess the risk to mammals of a chronic exposure to imidacloprid (IMI), we investigated its absorption with the human intestinal Caco-2 cell line. Measurements of transepithelial transport revealed an apparent permeability coefficient of 21.6 x 10(-6) +/- 3.2 x 10(-6) cm/s reflecting a 100% absorption. The comparison of apical to basal (A- and basal to apical (B-A) transports showed that the monolayer presents a basal to apical polarized transport. Studies of apical uptake demonstrated that the transport was concentration-dependent and not saturable from 5 to 200 muM. Arrhenius plot analysis revealed two apparent activation energies, Ea(4-12 degreesC) 63.8 kJ/mol and Ea(12-37 degreesC) 18.2 kJ/mol, suggesting two temperature-dependent processes. IMI uptake was equivalent when it was performed at pH 6.0 or 7.4. Depletion of Na+ from the transport buffer did not affect the uptake, indicating that a sodium-dependent transporter was not involved. Decrease of uptake with sodium-azide or after cell surface trypsin (Ti) treatment suggested the involvement of a trypsin-sensitive ATP-dependent transporter. Investigations on apical efflux demonstrated that initial velocities paralleled the increase of loading concentrations. A cell surface trypsin treatment did not affect the apical efflux. The lack of effect when the efflux was performed against an IMI concentration gradient suggested that an energy-dependent transporter was involved. However, the inhibition of P-glycoproteins (P-gp) and multidrug resistance-associated proteins (MRP) by taxol, vincristine, and daunorubicine had no effect on IMI intracellular accumulation suggesting the involvement of transporters distinct from classical ATP binding cassette transport (ABC-transport) systems. All results suggest that IMI is strongly absorbed in vivo by inward and outward active transporters. © 2003 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

Addresses:

Belzunces LP, UAPV, INRA, UMR 406, Lab Toxicol Environm, Site Agroparc, F-84914 Avignon 9, France

UAPV, INRA, UMR 406, Lab Toxicol Environm, F-84914 Avignon 9, France

Fac Sci & Tech St Jerome, UMR 111, IMRN, Lab Biochim & Physicochim Membranes Biol, F-13397 Marseille, France

 

Metabolism of imidacloprid in Apis mellifera

Suchail S, Debrauwer L, Belzunces LP

PEST MANAGEMENT SCIENCE

60 (3): 291-296 MAR 2004

Document type: Article Language: English

Abstract:

Biotransformation of imidacloprid and the appearance of olefin and 5-hydroxyimidacloprid metabolites in the honeybee were studied by HPLC-MS/MS analysis. Honeybees were treated orally with imidacloprid at 20 and 50 mug kg(-1) bee. Imidacloprid was metabolised relatively quickly and thoroughly. Twenty minutes after the beginning of imidacloprid ingestion, the sum of the residues from the three compounds amounted to only 70% of the actual given dose. Imidacloprid, S-hydroxyimidacloprid and olefin represented, respectively, 50%, 9% and 8% of the actual ingested dose. Six and 24 h, respectively, after ingestion of imidacloprid at 20 and 50 mug kg(-1) bee, imidacloprid could no longer be detected in the honeybee. Imidacloprid had a half-life ranging between 4.5 and 5 h and was rapidly metabolised into S-hydroxyimidacloprid and olefin. Except 5-hydroxyimidacloprid in the 20 mug kg(-1) treatment, these two metabolites presented a peak value 4 h after ingestion of the 20 and 50 mug kg(-1) doses. This time fully coincided with the appearance of mortality induced by imidacloprid after acute oral intoxication. These results suggested that the immediate neurotoxicity symptoms are due to the action of imidacloprid, whereas 5-hydroxyimidacloprid and/or olefin are involved in honeybee mortality. In addition, it was likely that the 30% of residues undetected 20 min after intoxication were imidacloprid metabolites, although not 5-hydroxyimidacloprid or olefin. Thus, 5-hydroxyimidacloprid and olefin could not be the major metabolites in the worker bees. © 2003 Society of Chemical Industry.

Addresses:

Suchail S, UAPV, INRA, Lab Pollinisat Entomophile, UMR 406, Site Agroparc, F-84914 Avignon 09, France

UAPV, INRA, Lab Pollinisat Entomophile, UMR 406, F-84914 Avignon 09, France

INRA, ENVT, ENSAT, INPT Xenobiot,UMR, F-31931 Toulouse, France

 

Imidacloprid impairs memory and brain metabolism in the honeybee (Apis mellifera L.)

Decourtye A, Armengaud C, Renou M, Devillers J, Cluzeau S, Gauthier M, Pham-Delegue MH

PESTICIDE BIOCHEMISTRY AND PHYSIOLOGY

78 (2): 83-92 FEB 2004

Document type: Article Language: English

Abstract:

Imidacloprid is a chloronicotinyl insecticide which interacts with insect nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. Thirty minutes after oral treatment of honeybees with imidacloprid, the olfactory learning performances in a proboscis extension reflex (PER) procedure were impaired. In parallel, an increase of the cytochrome oxidase labelling was found into the calyces of the mushroom bodies. Imidacloprid administered 15 min or 1 h after a one-trial conditioning of PER impaired the medium-term olfactory memory. By contrast, the short-term (30 s or 3 min conditioning-treatment time interval) and long-term (24h conditioning-treatment time interval) memories were unaffected. The impairment of medium-term olfactory memory by imidacloprid is discussed in the context of neural circuits suspected to mediate memory formation in the honeybee brain. © 2003 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

Addresses:

Decourtye A, ACTA, 18 Ave Monts Or, F-69890 La Tour Salvagny, France

ACTA, F-69890 La Tour Salvagny, France

Univ Toulouse 3, Ctr Rech Cognit Anim, F-31062 Toulouse, France

INRA, Unite Phytopharm & Med Chim, F-78026 Versailles, France

CTIS, F-69140 Rillieux La Pape, France

ACTA, F-75595 Paris 12, France

INRA, Lab Neurobiol Comparee Invertebres, F-91440 Bures Sur Yvette, France

 

Earthworm behaviour as a biomarker - a case study using imidacloprid

Capowiez Y, Rault M, Mazzia C, Belzunces L

PEDOBIOLOGIA

47 (5-6): 542-547 2003

Document type: Article Language: English

Abstract:

To determine whether earthworm behaviour can be used as a biomarker for pollutant effects, an experiment was set up using ®Confidor (imidacloprid) as a model pesticide. The burrowing behaviour of two earthworm species of different ecological types (the anecic Aporrectodea, nocturna and the endogeic Allolobophora, icterica) was studied using 2D terraria. The activity of two classical biochemical markers (AchE and GST activities) was also measured. Imidacloprid had no effect on the biochemical markers in either earthworm species whatever the concentration (0.01, 0.1 and 1 ppm). In contrast, earthworm behaviour changed dramatically in the presence of imidacloprid. Following one week of exposure to the pesticide at two different concentrations (0.5 and 1 ppm), burrow length, the rate of burrow reuse and the distance covered decreased for both species. We conclude that earthworm behaviour is a sensitive biomarker that can be studied with cheap and simple apparatus such as 2D terraria.

Addresses:

Capowiez Y, UAPV, INRA, UMR Ecol Invertebres, Lab Toxicol Environm, F-84914 Avignon 09, France

UAPV, INRA, UMR Ecol Invertebres, Lab Toxicol Environm, F-84914 Avignon 09, France

[jaka]

Fantje ne bojte se Gaucha. Tudi letos sem imel na oljni ogrščici, pa ni bilo nič narobe. Čebele so bile zelo lepe. Pri nas je področje sl. pese in zelenjave in tudi Gaucha. Je pa prav, da ga postavimo pod drobnogled.

Za pomore oz. pogine na Gorenjskem spomladi pa je kriva varoza, kar vam lahko potrdi tudi doc. dr. Aleš Gregorc.

Letos ni bilo niti enega, uradno potrjenega pomora zaradi Gaucha. Nekateri čebelarji na Gorenjskem pa so imeli v mrtvicah 3x - tne smrtne doze imidaklopirida. Taka čebela niti ni mogla prileteti v panj, ker bi na mestu umrla. Zelo čudno.

LP

[Danilo]

napačno dr. Gregorc ni pravi človek za te zadeve žal na napačen vir se sklicuješ...

[jaka]

Žal Danilo ne vem, kdo bi zate bil ustrezen meritoren organ. Mogoče čebelar, ki ima izkušnje v čebelarjenju in zakonodaji in je bil na mestu dogajanj.

Gaucho, ponavljam, ni nenevaren, toda za pomore na Gorenjskem je kriva slaba čebelarska praksa in suša. To je seveda moje osebno mnenje, da me potem kdo ne bo vlekel. Na tem forumu se oglašam izključno kot čebelar. Prvi padci družin zaradi Gaucha bi morali biti na naših področjih, kjer na njivah cvetita tudi ajda in v zadnjih letih vedno več- oljna ogrščica. Strnišča pa bogato cvetijo (breskvolistna dresen - sorodnica ajde). Živel plevel.

Gaucho je najbolj razširjen insekticid in ga kot takega moramo obravnavati. S svojimi neg. lastnostmi lahko vpliva na razvoj čebel. Vendar, če se uporablja v skladu s priporočili, ne more povzročiti takih poginov. Potem bi Pomurje in Štajerska bili brez čebel.

Slaba čebelarska praksa pomeni zame uporaba neregistriranih pripravkov za zatiranje varoze in pa ob nepravem času. Lani smo v suši tudi krmili - ne pa samo točili.

LP

[Danilo]

ja nikjer ni napisano, da nas taki pomori od te kemikalije ne čakajo še v bodoče???

[jaka]

Ne bi rad, da me bi narobe razumel. Saj ne branim Gaucha in ne kemikalij. Vendar brez njih bomo pri proizvodnji hrane težko shajali. Oba imava čebele (vsaj jaz) na kmetijsko intenzivnem območju, kjer se goji sl. pes že skoraj 30 let. In v zadnjih letih je semem sl. pese tretirano največ z imidaklopiridom. Confidor se uporablja v papriki, zelju, čebuli ......tudi zelenjadarjev je precej. Strniščni dosevki in pa programi o ozelenitvi površin čez zimo vključujejo še isto leto cvetoče strniščne dosevke.

Na področju Ormoža in Središča ob Dravi ni bilo (prijavljenih) padcev družin. In koliko poznam delo mojih kolegov tudi v bližnji okolici ne. Padle so pa družine zaradi drugih "običajnih" razlogov, katere pa čebelarji včasih ne obešamo na veliki zvon. Posebaj če ni kaka kužna zadeva. Je čisto normalno, padci čez zimo do 10% so še sprejemljivi.

Res je, da se okolje spreminja. Tudi velike suše niso ugodne za čebele. Zasaditi bi morali vetrobranske pasove po ptujskem polju, meje...Novi zakon o lovu obvezuje lastnike in najemnike, da morajo do 10% kmetijskih zemljišč pustiti v t.i. ekološke niše (meje, vetrob. pasovi...).

Kot agronom gledam na te stvari malo drugače. Čebelarstvo je del kmetijstva, katerega najpomembnejša naloga je proizvodnja hrane. Seveda ob ohranitvi naravnih resursov in odgovornosti do okolja.

Gaucho ni največji problem. Največjega vidim v primanjkovanju legalnih zdravil za zatiranje varoze. Ko je odpovedal Bayvarol (oz. piretroidi), je na področju Središča ob Dravi padlo 80 % družin. In ni bil Gaucho.......V Ormožu smo takrat imeli srečo z izborom drugega zdravila....In nikjer se ni nič slišalo, ni bilo Komatov in drugih "znanstvenikov"

LP

[Danilo]

Varoja sploh ni pomembna vsak, ki je dandanes ne uspe obdržati na nivoju je pač izpadel iz igre. Veliko dejavnikov je tu prisotnih in eden glavnih je seveda tudi uporaba FFS to se pozna tudi pri meni. Do sedaj nisem imel težav se pa pojavljajo kajti ni možno držat družine v tako dobri kondiciji pa delam z ustaljeno prakso in nisem izgubil zaradi varoje nikoli nobene družine.

Problemi so na celi črti in vsakega nekaj na koncu pa je malo nepazljivosti čebelarja potem usodno. Nebi se spuščal v te debate, ker jih midva ne bova rešila vendar, če se ne spremeni uporaba FFS ali vsaj nekako omili nam bo trda predla kajti nadzora ni in tudi povzročielji ostanejo nekaznovani kajti delo pristojnih služb je nekontrolirano....

[jaka]

Ne bi rekel, da je delo pristojnih služb nekontrolirano. V določenem delu je tudi javno.

Okolje se je spremenilo, paše so manjše - vsaj v bolj poseljenem in obdelanem delu Slovenije. Vseeno imamo srečo in nimamo takih vremenslih nevšečnosti kot drugod. Suša, ekstremna, je problem. Malo sušnejše leto je za čebelarje ugodno.

Največ poginov do sedaj so zahtevala ne FFS amapak varoza. To je dejstvo. In kdo misli, da jo obvlada, se moti. Varoza se prilagaja na nova zdravila. Koliko so pa kisline učinkovite, pa ne vemo vedno. Tudi postopki še niso dorečeni in preverjeni. Vsekakor pa zahtevajo skrbno in natančno delo. To je delo strokovnih služb, pobuda pa mora biti iz naše strani.

[Danilo]

Jaz še vedno trdim, da varoja ni problem no jaz nikoli nisem imel težav v teh 11 letih pa sem kot čisti začetnik šel skozi huda leta, ko je odpovedal fluvalinat ampak nobene družine nisem izgubil zaradi varoje v vseh teh 11 letih. Pa nisem nikoli uporabil kumafosa ali kaj podobnega niti kakih težav zaradi varoje ni bilo. Težave so takrat, ko čebelar lepo konec julija ali začetek avgusta kravatico in na morje za 2-3 tedne popiha. Čebele pa lačne in, ko začne zdravit potem več ni kaj zdravit saj je dejansko vse prazno.

 

Kot drugo veterina je odpovedala in nima evidence na terenu kdaj, z čim se tretirajo ter koliko družin ima čebelar julija in koliko jih še živi konec oktobra Dokler teh evidenc območni veterinar NVI zadolžen za čebele tega ne bo vodil do takrat je odmrtje družin oziroma vzrokov samo ugibanje. Enako mora ta veterinar pogledat marca koliko družin je izzimilo in vsaka družina mora imeti neko evidenčno številko preko katere je sledljiva kamorkoli se proda, če odmre mora veterinar izdat potrdilo, da je res odmrla ter navesti možen vzrok smrti. Enako kot je za goveda, prašiče itd..to dragi moji agronomi in vse službe zadolžene za to moramo sprovesti šele takrat si bomo lahko natočili čistega vina Kot se vidi se začnejo tudi pri nas sončnice kar sejat nazaj manjka nam še, da seme obdelamo z imidaklopridom in ''zvalimo'' krivdo za odmrtje na varojo. Bayer pa pozovemo, da nam razvija zdravila za boj proti varoji, ga velikodušno reklamiramo v čebelarju in božamo ter častimo kot svetnika.

[jaka]

Danilo. Glede reda se popolnoma strinjava. Tudi meni čebele niso padle še zaradi varoze. Pri medu, ki bi naj bil najboljši dar matere narave, je vsako eksperimentiranje laika nevarno.

In padci spomladi zaradi Gaucha , ko se še ne uporabljao fitofarmacevtska sredstva in to padci unikatni oz. še nikoli videni v tem obdobju v celi Evropi in svetu :xx!: . Pravilno ugotavljaš vzrok - kravatca, pa malo kongres, pa malo pozabimo avgusta oz. malo prej. Se strinjam. Čeprav malo cinično, pravilno postavljaš stvari. Verjetno si agronom ali zelo blizu. Sončnice pa so zelo lepe. Namesto koruze - pa brez imidaklopirida.

LP